Who Would You Take Out The IBHOF?

[NChristo]

I think the reason McGuigan got in was the impact he had on the sport, only a few fighter have excited the British the way McGuigan did, for one the Pedrosa fight got ridiculous viewing figures.
He made Boxing more popular in the UK then Hatton and Eubank / Benn ever did, also him writing for the Ring and his connections around boxing probably helped get him in.

It's the same with Ingo, his trilogy with Patterson made a huge impact on the sport but overall his career wasn't that great.

[BennyST]

I think the reason McGuigan got in was the impact he had on the sport, only a few fighter have excited the British the way McGuigan did for one the Pedrosa fight got ridiculous viewing figures.
He made Boxing more popular in the UK then Hatton and Eubank / Benn ever did, also him writing for the Ring and his connections around boxing probably helped get him in.

It's the same with Ingo, his trilogy with Patterson made a huge impact on the sport but overall his career wasn't that great.

Yes, that does make sense. His commentating, general contributions, popularity etc were very huge in that part of the world.

For accomplishments in fighting he doesn't deserve to be there but maybe for all around career and afterward, he does.

[Tiozzo]

Only two. Barry McGuigan and Terrible Terry Norris.

come on, Terry Norris is perhaps the best JMW boxer ever...

[frankenfrank]

Rose was 19 when he won the title. In the history of boxing, usually those who peak at a young age are done before they are 30(Benitez, Fernando Vargas, Gomez, Zarate, etc.).

You now wrote done before age 30. But he retired at 28. Now lets look at his record until age 22. Was he done by 22 ?
won 38 (KO 10) + lost 5 (KO 3) + drawn 0 = 43
His record by the time of his last retirement :
won 42 (KO 12) + lost 11 (KO 5) + drawn 0 = 53

Not to mention he only faced very few decent fighters in this record.

Why are you arguing in favor of a never was ? why should anyone care about his popularity ?

[frankenfrank]

*sigh* Oh god, no offense Frank, but you seriously need to learn something. Lionel Rose a nobody? Fighting Harada far from great?

Now, you just found that SD thing on boxrec right? You haven't actually seen the fight against Chucho have you? No, didn't think so. Rose won it but the fans were 95% mad Chucho fans and while it was close it was a clear win for him. Even if he had knocked out Chucho the fans would have started a riot thinking he was robbed. Seriously mate, some of your posts of late have stank of plain trolling and ignorance.

If you don't have the slightest clue who someone is and what they have achieved, don't ****ing pretend you know something about them.

His only two losses before fighting a prime Ruben Olivares were very early on and both were guys he beat too. Unified (Undisputed lineal) BW champ during the time when the BW era was arguably at it's greatest depth of talent. Wins over Fighting Harada, Guts Ishimatsu, Jose Medel, Chucho Castillo, Alan Rudkin, Takao Sakurai (olympic gold medalist), Rocky Gatellari.

Please though, explain one thing for me. How is Fighting Harada far from great? Explain that one if you could because I'm flat out stumped.

Like some fighters he unfortunately aged very early in his boxing career. He was struggling with his health even by the time he was fighting Olivares and it went downhill very quickly from there on. His weight problems and his issue of making it brought a great career to an early end. He had one last great fight in a very close fight, which could have gone either way, against the Japanese great Yoshiaki Numata in Numata's hometown but was already done by this stage.

I don't know why you bother to comment on guys when you literally just found out about them and have done nothing more than simply looked up boxrec? Have you ever seem him fight? Do you know anything about any of his opponents? Do you know what historic achievements he made?

Edit: Hey listen mate, I'm not trying to be rude or anything and I hope it didn't come across too nasty, but I just find it a bit strange (and annoying to be honest) that you would slag off a great fighter without knowing a single thing or ever seeing him even fight. Does that make sense or am I just coming across as a prick?

Problems making weight ? why did it never bothered Delahoya , Toney , Roy Jones , Langford , William Lawrence Stribling , Dingaan Thobela , Jorge Castro , Roberto Duran , Vinny Pazienza , Camacho , Chavez , Pacquiao , Hearns , Leonard , Mayweather and many more ?
You know why ? because good (not necessarily great) fighters can move up a division or two , or even more if they are really talented , without having a big problem . But Lionel Rose could not win a title at more than one division.
Not to mention the length of his 'reign' there . "unified" BW champion ? in an era of 2 titles . and it's not that he beat 2 titlists to gain his 2 belts for the short time he held them , and he won them by a majority decision . A clear case of a mere titlist . You overrate him and it doesn't take a genius to know he was far from great , I doubt if good.
People diss fighters like Vinny Pazienza , John Ruiz and Joe Mesi , all of which achieved much more. If Lionel Rose deserves to be at a Hall Of Fame outside of the aboriginal HOF , then very few deserve not to. Sometimes boxrec is enough to know : this fighter is not worth watching .
Look at my last reply to 1Silva (above this) to why his record is enough to know this.

[BennyST]

Problems making weight ? why did it never bothered Delahoya , Toney , Roy Jones , Langford , William Lawrence Stribling , Dingaan Thobela , Jorge Castro , Roberto Duran , Vinny Pazienza , Camacho , Chavez , Pacquiao , Hearns , Leonard , Mayweather and many more ?
You know why ? because good (not necessarily great) fighters can move up a division or two , or even more if they are really talented , without having a big problem . But Lionel Rose could not win a title at more than one division.
Not to mention the length of his 'reign' there . "unified" BW champion ? in an era of 2 titles . and it's not that he beat 2 titlists to gain his 2 belts for the short time he held them , and he won them by a majority decision . A clear case of a mere titlist . You overrate him and it doesn't take a genius to know he was far from great , I doubt if good.
People diss fighters like Vinny Pazienza , John Ruiz and Joe Mesi , all of which achieved much more. If Lionel Rose deserves to be at a Hall Of Fame outside of the aboriginal HOF , then very few deserve not to. Sometimes boxrec is enough to know : this fighter is not worth watching .
Look at my last reply to 1Silva (above this) to why his record is enough to know this.

Ok mate. What a ****ing douchebag

[prinzemanspopa]

I don't think Carlos Zarate and his padded record don't deserve to be placed among the elite of the sport's history.He has a few good wins and then the rest of the guys he fought were complete bums.If you look at his record and the bantamweight rankings of that time,he avoided fighting several top ten rated fighters in favour of defending his title against jokers.



Zarate's resume is definately not that much better than McGuigans.

[BennyST]

Problems making weight ? why did it never bothered Delahoya , Toney , Roy Jones , Langford , William Lawrence Stribling , Dingaan Thobela , Jorge Castro , Roberto Duran , Vinny Pazienza , Camacho , Chavez , Pacquiao , Hearns , Leonard , Mayweather and many more ?
You know why ? because good (not necessarily great) fighters can move up a division or two , or even more if they are really talented , without having a big problem . But Lionel Rose could not win a title at more than one division.
Not to mention the length of his 'reign' there . "unified" BW champion ? in an era of 2 titles . and it's not that he beat 2 titlists to gain his 2 belts for the short time he held them , and he won them by a majority decision . A clear case of a mere titlist . You overrate him and it doesn't take a genius to know he was far from great , I doubt if good.
People diss fighters like Vinny Pazienza , John Ruiz and Joe Mesi , all of which achieved much more. If Lionel Rose deserves to be at a Hall Of Fame outside of the aboriginal HOF , then very few deserve not to. Sometimes boxrec is enough to know : this fighter is not worth watching .
Look at my last reply to 1Silva (above this) to why his record is enough to know this.

You still didn't explain why Fighting Harada is far from great? Enlighten us all with your amazing boxing wisdom from Boxrec mate.

Let's hear it.

[BattlingNelson]

Ok mate. What a ****ing douchebag

Did 'Toucan' McGinty ever make it to the HOF? He surely deserved it. Is there a list of HOF'ers somewhere?

[1SILVA]

Did 'Toucan' McGinty ever make it to the HOF? He surely deserved it. Is there a list of HOF'ers somewhere?

IBHOF INDUCTEES

Modern - Last bout no earlier than 1943
Muhammad Ali
Sammy Angott
Fred Apostoli
Alexis Arguello
Henry Armstrong
Carmen Basilio
Wilfred Benitez
Nino Benvenuti
Jackie (Kid) Berg
Jimmy Bivins
Joe Brown
Ken Buchanan
Charley Burley
Orlando Canizales
Miguel Canto
Michael Carbajal
Jimmy Carter
Marcel Cerdan
Antonio Cervantes
Bobby Chacon
Jeff Chandler
Jung-Koo Chang
Ezzard Charles
Curtis Cokes
Billy Conn
Pipino Cuevas
Roberto Duran
Flash Elorde
Jeff Fenech
George Foreman
Bob Foster
Joe Frazier
Gene Fullmer
Khaosai Galaxy
Victor Galindez
Kid Gavilan
Joey Giardello
Wilfredo Gomez
Humberto Gonzalez
Billy Graham
Rocky Graziano
Emile Griffith
Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Masahiko (Fighting) Harada
Larry Holmes
Beau Jack
Lew Jenkins
Eder Jofre
Ingemar Johansson
Harold Johnson
Ismael Laguna
Jake LaMotta
Sugar Ray Leonard
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
Nicolino Locche
Duilio Loi
Danny Lopez
Ricardo Lopez
Joe Louis
Mike McCallum
Barry McGuigan
Rocky Marciano
Lloyd Marshall
Joey Maxim
Brian Mitchell
Bob Montgomery
Carlos Monzon
Archie Moore
Jose Napoles
Azumah Nelson
Terry Norris
Ken Norton
Ruben Olivares
Carl (Bobo) Olson
Carlos Ortiz
Manuel Ortiz
Carlos Palomino
Laszlo Papp
Willie Pastrano
Floyd Patterson
Eusebio Pedroza
Willie Pep
Pascual Perez
Eddie Perkins
Aaron Pryor
Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Sugar Ramos
Sugar Ray Robinson
Luis Rodriguez
Edwin Rosario
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Sandy Saddler
Vicente Saldivar
Salvador Sanchez
Max Schmeling
Michael Spinks
**** Tiger
Jose Torres
Randy Turpin
Jersey Joe Walcott
Pernell Whitaker
Holman Williams
Ike Williams
Chalky Wright
Tony Zale
Daniel Zaragoza
Carlos Zarate
Fritzie Zivic