Rocky Marciano VS Mike Tyson.

[Brassangel]

Orginally posted by brownpimp88
I would pick a fresh spinks over washed up archie and ezzard any day of the week. The fact that ezzard went the full 15 rounds with a prime rocky is kinda embarassing cuz ezzard was 3 years past his prime.

Spinks had large stretches of inactivity leading up to his fight with Tyson. It was also a poor style matchup more than anything. Spinks was trying to one-punch Mike as he was coming in, and Mike moved his head enough (albeit, not as much as used to), to avoid one punch at a time. Spinks fought rather awkwardly to begin with, and Mike was awkward to hit at that time given his height, and defensive ability. Spinks really shined as a light heavyweight, but had proved himself against the heavies. Unfortunately for him, he had some inactivity prior to this match, and again, it was a bad style matchup. Add to the fact that Spinks wasn't firing with a good confidence level when Mike was coming in, due to a child-like fear of the boogie man, and you have a recipe for disaster.

When it comes to Ezzard Charles as an opponent, in all fairness, Rocky was a very slow starter, and a patient fighter; especially considering that he's classified as a "swarmer". Secondly, Ezzard had incredible boxing skill, which is something that will come naturally to a fighter even when they are beyond their prime. He had time to try and figure the slow-starting Marciano out, and develop a strategy to survive the whole fight. Sometimes a KO fighter won't always KO somebody they should. (See: Mike Tyson's career)

[J.C.]

As I look back on Mike Tyson's professional career ... I see that at time he was the best heavyweight weight fighter in his time when he was on top. But he wasn't one of the greats like Rocky Marciano.

Mike, had NO heart!

Mike was a bully who seemed awesome as long as he was fighting scared, much lesser opponents. But against a fighter who wasn't afraid of him like Evander Holyfied, Mike lacked courage to stay in the fight when he was hurt.

Also Mike lacked staying power, he lacked stamina, and he'd tire after 4 or 5 rounds.

Mike was a short term fighter who loses power after 4 or 5 rounds.

When I say Mike had NO heart!

By that I mean he lacked the mental toughness of great a fighter. Once hit with a good, hard solid punch he'd tend to stop fighting, and stop throwing combination punches he'd go into a one punch mode only throwing one punch at a time, and abandon his onslaught.

Also what I saw about Mike was that whenever he was behind and losing a fight he could never come back, and if he ever got knocked down he never rallied form from a knock down to be able to come back and win the fight that all great fighters do.

Joe Louis for example, was knocked down more often than any heavyweight champion. Yet only twice when he was knocked down, and in both cases against Max Schmeling and Rocky Marciano. But Louis didn't stay down with the first knock down.

Jack Dempsey, for example, rallied after being knocked down, twice, once completely out of the ring even in his fight with Luis Firpo.

Rocky Marciano, for another example, was knocked down, twice, by Joe Walcott, and Archie Moore, and he continued on until he knocked both men out.

But as for Mike Tyson, if he got knocked down he was finshed, he was done.

Larry Merchant said it best I think in comparing Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier: "Frazier was a mile wide and a mile deep. Tyson is a mile wide and an inch deep."

Mike Tyson was the best heavyweight fighter for a time when he was there and was champion, but as being a great champion, Mike was never a great champion.

Mike did not have the heart of great fighters like Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano.

Prime to prime Mike would have stood no chance against greats like Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano. Either one of those fighters would have knocked Mike Tyson out.

[Verstyle]

"For a while to put Mike Tyson on the same level as Rocky Marciano; but it could never happen. When Rocky was in there he didn't just have the punch; he had the heart and will to win that Tyson or any of the others could ever come close to matching."

LOU DUVA (2004)

Lou Duva is one of today's top fight trainers and has turned out eighteen world champions. Duva is old school and in my veiw the old school was the best school for it turned out the greatest fighters.

I agree with what Duva said in comparing Mike Tyson with Rocky Marciano.

Looking back at Mike Tyson's professional career I saw that Mike was easily beaten by Evander Holyfield, however. Mike could be and was awesome when he was fighting scared, and lesser opponents than Holyfield.

Against a fighter who isn't afraid of him like Holyfield. Tyson lacks heart and courage to stay in a fight where he in being hurt.

Tyson also lacks stamina, and he'd get tired after 4 or 5 rounds.

Marciano would have faced Tyson head on and fought him toe-to-toe and took his best punches and given Tyson some punches just as hard or harder, and Tyson would have lost heart and courage just as he did with Holyfield.

Even if Tyson could keep his nerve after 5 rounds taking some hard punches from Marciano, Tyson would have been fighting somebody who still had the power to get the knockout and would not be tired like Mike would be after 4 or 5 rounds.

When you look at Tyson's over all professional career you see that whenever Mike took a good solid punch and got hit hard, he near stopped fighting, and started holding back and would stop throwing combination punches but NOT so with Marciano. Rocky always went forward and never backed up in a fight and Rocky could punch hard, VERY hard, he could hurt you with either hand no matter where he hit you arms, shoulders or wherever?

Also when you look back at Tyson's professional career you see that he could never come back in a fight when he was behind and losing the fight he never could and he never ever did in being able to come back in a fight. But NOT so with Marciano, he always could and did come back to win the fight, but Tyson never could do so in his fights.

Tyson, could never come back to win a fight after he had been knocked down, he never could and he never did in his fights. But NOT so with Marcianio he always did and to win the fight.

When Mike gets knocked down, he's DONE!

Marciano would wear Tyson down, Mike would be toast after 4 or 5 rounds. I pick Rocky the winner by knockout in the fifth or sixth round.

once again some1 talks about an out of prime tyson. wow. go figure. in his prime he still was going all the way threw 12 rounds and had heart in fights as ruddock 1&2 and douglas,lewis,williams,holyfield 1. also ruddock was afraid of tyson and tyson beat him twice.

so please get off of tysons AFTER PRIME CAREER.or should we start talkin only about an out of prime ali

[THE REAL NINJA]

once again some1 talks about an out of prime tyson. wow. go figure. in his prime he still was going all the way threw 12 rounds and had heart in fights as ruddock 1&2 and douglas,lewis,williams,holyfield 1. also ruddock was afraid of tyson and tyson beat him twice.

so please get off of tysons AFTER PRIME CAREER.or should we start talkin only about an out of prime ali

Tyson never had heart in a 12 round fight in his life he just had people around him that could push him throu the fights at the time . Watch the Smith fight and the Green fights even back then Tyson acted as if he wanted to quit .

[Brassangel]

Originally posted by J.C.
Mike was a bully who seemed awesome as long as he was fighting scared, much lesser opponents. But against a fighter who wasn't afraid of him like Evander Holyfied, Mike lacked courage to stay in the fight when he was hurt.

I hope that I don't have to go over this one again...

As for his heart: it's true, it was lacking. Ruddock was an example of a "perfect Tyson opponent." He was big, had reach, and his punches were probably top 10 in the division in terms of power. He also was not afraid of Mike Tyson, especially since he had recently lost to another fighter of similar stature, Buster Douglas. Nonetheless, Mike kept fighting, even when Ruddock was landing bombs. He actually pulled through the late rounds of both fights to force a stoppage in the first meeting, and a decision in the second. He showed that he can overcome incredible disadvantages, and he displayed, at least briefly, that he cared about winning again.

The worst time period for him was actually after he unified the belts. He wasn't the same once it went to his head, he fired his corner, got married, etc. etc.

Even so, Mike did lack heart. Does that stop him from being a great? No. So he lacked this particular trait. So did George Foreman during his prime, as well as Sonny Liston. What about other traits? Marciano lacked speed. Does that take away from him? Of course not. Muhammad Ali lacked the puncher's chance, and he NEVER had a body attack of any kind. Does that take away from him? Certainly not. Frazier lacked the ability to figure out George Foreman...at all. He also didn't have a great boxing brain. Joe Louis lacked the iron jaw of some of the above mentioned fighters. Still, these guys were great. Many of them weren't repeat champions, nor were they favored in as many fights as Mike Tyson was. Everybody knew he had it in him, he just never truly peaked.

Denying him one quality, albeit a major one in heart, doesn't destroy the entire package. Comparatively speaking, this effectively strips almost every fighter of "greatness" by your definition, short of perhaps Larry Holmes. He had speed, decent power, heart, stamina, good chin, good body, and longevity. I guess that must make him the best ever...even if he did fight during a lull in the division. Oops, a weakness, better take great away from him.

This thread is kind of rediculous. It would probably be a great fight. In all seriousness, Mike Tyson is one guy who probably matches up head-to-head in his prime against most fighters throughout history better than almost any other. In head-to-head I'd probably go:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Mike Tyson
3. Joe Louis
4. George Foreman
5. Sonny Liston

Although any order for these five would probably do. My favorite's still Joe Frazier, since he's a freakin' Iron Man, but that's not the discussion here.

[butterfly1964]

I hope that I don't have to go over this one again...

As for his heart: it's true, it was lacking. Ruddock was an example of a "perfect Tyson opponent." He was big, had reach, and his punches were probably top 10 in the division in terms of power. He also was not afraid of Mike Tyson, especially since he had recently lost to another fighter of similar stature, Buster Douglas. Nonetheless, Mike kept fighting, even when Ruddock was landing bombs. He actually pulled through the late rounds of both fights to force a stoppage in the first meeting, and a decision in the second. He showed that he can overcome incredible disadvantages, and he displayed, at least briefly, that he cared about winning again.

The worst time period for him was actually after he unified the belts. He wasn't the same once it went to his head, he fired his corner, got married, etc. etc.

Even so, Mike did lack heart. Does that stop him from being a great? No. So he lacked this particular trait. So did George Foreman during his prime, as well as Sonny Liston. What about other traits? Marciano lacked speed. Does that take away from him? Of course not. Muhammad Ali lacked the puncher's chance, and he NEVER had a body attack of any kind. Does that take away from him? Certainly not. Frazier lacked the ability to figure out George Foreman...at all. He also didn't have a great boxing brain. Joe Louis lacked the iron jaw of some of the above mentioned fighters. Still, these guys were great. Many of them weren't repeat champions, nor were they favored in as many fights as Mike Tyson was. Everybody knew he had it in him, he just never truly peaked.

Denying him one quality, albeit a major one in heart, doesn't destroy the entire package. Comparatively speaking, this effectively strips almost every fighter of "greatness" by your definition, short of perhaps Larry Holmes. He had speed, decent power, heart, stamina, good chin, good body, and longevity. I guess that must make him the best ever...even if he did fight during a lull in the division. Oops, a weakness, better take great away from him.

This thread is kind of rediculous. It would probably be a great fight. In all seriousness, Mike Tyson is one guy who probably matches up head-to-head in his prime against most fighters throughout history better than almost any other. In head-to-head I'd probably go:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Mike Tyson
3. Joe Louis
4. George Foreman
5. Sonny Liston

Although any order for these five would probably do. My favorite's still Joe Frazier, since he's a freakin' Iron Man, but that's not the discussion here.

...

[Verstyle]

Tyson never had heart in a 12 round fight in his life he just had people around him that could push him throu the fights at the time . Watch the Smith fight and the Green fights even back then Tyson acted as if he wanted to quit .

no he didnt ahaha late in the rounds he was making fun of them so your statement is false right off the bat. i watch those fights enough to tell u that without even watching them.and having no heart is also falling out of your game plan and he stayed in his gameplan on both fights.

[hhascup]

"For a while to put Mike Tyson on the same level as Rocky Marciano; but it could never happen. When Rocky was in there he didn't just have the punch; he had the heart and will to win that Tyson or any of the others could ever come close to matching."

LOU DUVA (2004)

Lou Duva is one of today's top fight trainers and has turned out eighteen world champions. Duva is old school and in my veiw the old school was the best school for it turned out the greatest fighters.

I agree with what Duva said in comparing Mike Tyson with Rocky Marciano.

Looking back at Mike Tyson's professional career I saw that Mike was easily beaten by Evander Holyfield, however. Mike could be and was awesome when he was fighting scared, and lesser opponents than Holyfield.

Against a fighter who isn't afraid of him like Holyfield. Tyson lacks heart and courage to stay in a fight where he in being hurt.

Tyson also lacks stamina, and he'd get tired after 4 or 5 rounds.

Marciano would have faced Tyson head on and fought him toe-to-toe and took his best punches and given Tyson some punches just as hard or harder, and Tyson would have lost heart and courage just as he did with Holyfield.

Even if Tyson could keep his nerve after 5 rounds taking some hard punches from Marciano, Tyson would have been fighting somebody who still had the power to get the knockout and would not be tired like Mike would be after 4 or 5 rounds.

When you look at Tyson's over all professional career you see that whenever Mike took a good solid punch and got hit hard, he near stopped fighting, and started holding back and would stop throwing combination punches but NOT so with Marciano. Rocky always went forward and never backed up in a fight and Rocky could punch hard, VERY hard, he could hurt you with either hand no matter where he hit you arms, shoulders or wherever?

Also when you look back at Tyson's professional career you see that he could never come back in a fight when he was behind and losing the fight he never could and he never ever did in being able to come back in a fight. But NOT so with Marciano, he always could and did come back to win the fight, but Tyson never could do so in his fights.

Tyson, could never come back to win a fight after he had been knocked down, he never could and he never did in his fights. But NOT so with Marcianio he always did and to win the fight.

When Mike gets knocked down, he's DONE!

Marciano would wear Tyson down, Mike would be toast after 4 or 5 rounds. I pick Rocky the winner by knockout in the fifth or sixth round.

Lou Duva is a very good friend of mine, BUT all you have to do is look at his All-Time Heavyweight Ratings:

1- Rocky Marciano
2- Muhammad Ali
3- Joe Louis
4- Billy Conn
5- Archie Moore
6- Ezzard Charles
7- Sonny Liston
8- Ernie Shavers
9- Jim Braddock
10- Max Baer.

Special mention: Max Schmelling and 'Jersey' Joe Walcott


As far as Rocky and Mike go, if it went passed the 5th Round Rocky would take control, BUT that would be very hard to do. Tyson would out weigh Rocky by approx. 30 pounds and I really think that would be the difference.



If you don't think weight would make a difference, then your saying that Sugar Ray Robinson would have stood a Great chance of beating Rocky. Rocky would out weigh him by 20-25 pounds.

[Verstyle]

Lou Duva is a very good friend of mine, BUT all you have to do is look at his All-Time Heavyweight Ratings:

1- Rocky Marciano
2- Muhammad Ali
3- Joe Louis
4- Billy Conn
5- Archie Moore
6- Ezzard Charles
7- Sonny Liston
8- Ernie Shavers
9- Jim Braddock
10- Max Baer.

Special mention: Max Schmelling and 'Jersey' Joe Walcott


As far as Rocky and Mike go, if it went passed the 5th Round Rocky would take control, BUT that would be very hard to do. Tyson would out weigh Rocky by approx. 30 pounds and I really think that would be the difference.



If you don't think weight would make a difference, then your saying that Sugar Ray Robinson would have stood a Great chance of beating Rocky. Rocky would out weigh him by 20-25 pounds.

duva and dundee never liked tyson

[hhascup]

duva and dundee never liked tyson

Actually, Duva's son-in-law, Tommy Brooks use to train Tyson for a while.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3DicO%26sa%3DN

Duva knew Rocky pretty well and he really LOVED him.