Rocky Marciano VS Mike Tyson.

[Hous]

Foreman did fight with 8 Oz gloves though. He had 8oz vs Chalvo and Pires, and Foreman did not killed them. Nor did he walk out of the ring with there heads attach to his gloves. I think the Oz gloves thing is over rated.

Thank you, you totally demolished his only arguement left.

About the conditioning thing, noone denies Rocky Marciano was the most conditioned fighter to ever enter the ring. He has superior stanima over every boxer. Thats the reason he is one of the best boxers of all time, if not the greatest. He threw some of the most powerful punches, which could KO anyone, but he through 10 more after that. He never stopped.

Walcott said "Louis could KO you with a combintion, but Marciano could KO you in one punch"

LaStanza said "I would throw a punch and Marciano would throw a punch, the difference is he would throw ten more"

Rocky Marciano being the most conditioned boxer is something everyone agrees on. He fought Heavyweight at 180 - 187lbs 5'10! The average was more than 200 back then.

[the traveler]

Hous, I came up with different factorings for a 81th fight Marciano, and the fact still stands, at 49 fights, Foreman had a better ko percentage than Marciano did.

I doubt that Rock would have been able to have been able to not fall 6 percentage points down in Ko percentage by the time he reached his 81th fight.

[Hous]

Hous, I came up with different factorings for a 81th fight Marciano, and the fact still stands, at 49 fights, Foreman had a better ko percentage than Marciano did.

I doubt that Rock would have been able to have been able to not fall 6 percentage points down in Ko percentage by the time he reached his 81th fight.

Your calculations were way off. How can you have foreman at 89% KOs on 49 fights, Marciano at 88% KOs on 49 fights but then have 11% difference if Marciano continued to fight? Now you correct it and say there is a 6% difference, still impossible. Doesn't take much math skill to figure this out, not insulting you, you proley are using a more complex formula that isnt right for the situation.

The final calculation wouldn't be off by more than a 2% and thats final. The reson it is irrealevant is because you would get the same KO%, just the difference will increase exponetially. Say their is a % at 49, then at 98 there would be a 2% difference, at 196 the difference would be 4%. As you can see Foremans KO% didn't continue in that manner and Marciano retired, it is unfair to attempt those calculations without propper data.

Its ****** that you would even try to pass that off as a fact, I actually took the time and looked at your calculations and instantly saw they were flawed. Plus who is to say Marciano would stop KOing people? Thats a very sujestive thing to say, and has no evidence to support it.

It also left out other factors like Marciano was 24 when he started to box professionally, Foreman was 20, foreman had 4 more years at the average prime of a boxer. Im not even going to consider this fact in my own reasoning because it means pretty much nothing to me, I onl mentioned it because you brought up a fact that means nothing, and is flawed. Your calculations.

Do you deny Marciano KOed more iron chins in his 49 fights than Foremans first 49? I dont think you will...

No offense to Foreman but Marciano did fight more iron chins in his 49 fights than Foreman did in his
-Roland LaStanza twice
-Archie Moore
-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice
-Joe Louis
-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Ezzard Charles (Twice)
-Roland LaStanza (Twice)

Foreman had
-Joe Frazier twice
-Muhammad Ali
-Ken Norton
-Ron Lyle

Foreman is a better boxer than Marciano in the long run because Marciano was a swarmer who took alot of hits, you cant absorb many blows and continue fighting 20 years. Marcianos KO % shouldn't be as high as it is knowing his style, size, and longevity of his career. But he was.

He was even rumored to try to get back into the professional ring when he got much older, but he died.

[the traveler]

You need to read what I said again, I didn't say him having a 72 percent ko percentage at 81 fights was a fact, I said hypothetically. If you don't know what hypothetically means, please pick up a dictionary because it sure doesn't mean "fact."

Forget the hypothetical statement. The fact still is that Foreman had a higher ko percentage at the end of 49 fights then Maricano did. I was only pointing that out to people.

Who fought the tougher chins? That's your opinion. The facts still stands. Don't even try to argue with it.

[Hous]

You need to read what I said again, I didn't say him having a 72 percent ko percentage at 81 fights was a fact, I said hypothetically. If you don't know what hypothetically means, please pick up a dictionary because it sure doesn't mean "fact."

Forget the hypothetical statement. The fact still is that Foreman had a higher ko percentage at the end of 49 fights then Maricano did. I was only pointing that out to people.

Who fought the tougher chins? That's your opinion. The facts still stands. Don't even try to argue with it.

Im saying in all honestly it is impossible to get those calculations with that data. You cannot have hypothetical results that do not reflect the data, thats common sence.

Prove me wrong, show me how you got 11% difference from data that showed a 1% difference, im intrigued.

Who fought the tough chins in those 489 fights is a well known fact, look up those names, say for instance for every fighter they fought in their 49 fights was in the top 20 chins give them 1 point, top 10 give them 2, top 5 give them 3. Without any doubt in my mind Marciano will blow Foreman away, he truely fought the toughest chins in the buisness.

I know you agree with me wheather or not you are going to admitt it here on the internet. I gave you the list of chins yesterday and you said nothing about it but about it because brassangle said Rocky sometimes used 8oz gloves. Which we all know is irrealevant because Foreman did aswell. Now we are bringing it back to your false calculations.

[the traveler]

I used some factors such as age, etc, but still, forget the hypothetical result. Stick to the 49 fight. That's the main thing I was trying to point out. Stop trying to harbor on that other ****.

[Hous]

I used some factors such as age, etc, but still, forget the hypothetical result. Stick to the 49 fight. That's the main thing I was trying to point out. Stop trying to harbor on that other ****.

Im not harboring onto anything, just pointed out your calcualtions were false. if the age thing was included it would favor Marciano, which your calculations clearly havent.

1973
01-22 -- Joe Frazier, Kingston, Jamaica, W TKO 2
(Won WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Won WBA Heavyweight Title)
04-28 -- Lonnie Bennett, Las Vegas, NV, Exh 2
04-28 -- Victor Scott, Las Vegas, NV, Exh 2
04-28 -- Terry Hinsky, Las Vegas, NV, Exh
04-28 -- Eddie Jones, Las Vegas, NV, Exh
09-01 -- Jose (King) Roman, Tokyo, Japan, W KO 1
(Retained WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Retained WBA Heavyweight Title)

1974
03-26 -- Ken Norton, Caracas, Venezuela, W TKO 2
(Retained WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Retained WBA Heavyweight Title)
10-30 -- Muhammad Ali, Kinshasa, Zaire, L KO 8
(Lost WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Lost WBA Heavyweight Title)

1975
04-26 -- Charley Polite, Toronto, Canada, Exh 3
04-26 -- Boone Kirkman, Toronto, Canada, Exh 3
04-26 -- Terry Daniels, Toronto, Canada, Exh 2
04-26 -- Jerry Judge, Toronto, Canada, Exh 2
04-26 -- Alonzo Johnson, Toronto, Canada, Exh 2
11-26 -- Jody Ballard, Kiamesha Lake, NY, Exh 2
12-17 -- Eddie Brooks, San Francisco, CA, Exh 4

1976
01-24 -- Ron Lyle, Las Vegas, NV, W KO 5
06-15 -- Joe Frazier, Uniondale, NY, W TKO 5
08-16 -- Scott LeDoux, Utica, NY, W TKO 3
10-15 -- John (Dino) Dennis, Hollywood, FL, W TKO 4

1977
01-22 -- Pedro Agosto, Pensacola, FL, W TKO 4
03-17 -- Jimmy Young, San Juan, Puerto Rico, L 12

http://boxing.about.com/od/records/a/foreman.htm

These are the fights that happened when he was the same age as Marciano, 80% KO rate. This doesn't mean much though but it means a hell of alot more than your calcualtions.

Whats more impressive is if I take Marcianos record at the same age.

March 17, 1947 Lee Epperson W KO 3 Holyoke, Massachusetts
July 12, 1948.... Harry Bilazarian... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
July 19, 1948 .... John Edwards... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Aug. 9, 1948.... Bobby Quinn... W KO 3 Providence, Rhode Island
Aug. 23, 1948.... Eddie Ross... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Aug. 30, 1948.... Jimmy Weeks... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Sept. 13, 1948.... Jerry Jackson... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Sept. 20, 1948.... Bill Hurdeman... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Sept. 30, 1948.... Gil Cardione... W KO 1 Washington, DC
Oct. 4, 1948.... Bob Jefferson... W KO 2 Providence, Rhode Island

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/A...47//Rock2.html

Now you understand, he KOed 100% of his first 15 fights. The reason why I am showing you this is because this is exactly what you did to me and didnt realize what you did. Now you see, I picked what I wanted to show you in compareson to Foreman at the same age. I bet you anything you were saying the same thing about the compareson I said about yours, which you found irrealeavant. You were sitting there thinking "but Foreman fought more impressive fights at that age," and your right. That was the purpose of my post here, Marciano fought more more impressive fighteres in his career than Foreman did in his first 49 fights. You cant have it both ways.

Pretty sneaky, eh?

[Stephen Clement]

okay so tyson never lost to any one smaller than himself, but guess what rock never lost at all.

tyson has lost to good,mediocre and ****ty oposition.

mike allways lost when his opponent wasnt afraid off him.

This was the key in all of his early losses, the lack of fear by Douglas and Holyfield got them by Tyson in the early rounds, and then their talent defeated him. Marciano, Frazier, and most certainly George Forman, would not have been afraid of him, and all had the talent and the power to beat him.

Comparing fighters of different era is really a fools game, but for a second, lets put Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Robinson, Bernard Hopkins, Carlos Monzon, and Roy Jones Jr. in a round robin championship tournement, who would be the greatest? Who would triumph over the rest of the competition? To my mind each of these men would be capable of defeating the other, its just a matter of who is having the best day.

[Dempsey1238]

would also say Bill Corum on commantry of the Archie Moore fight, that the ****ell fight was 8 Oz gloves. and mostly in a heavyweight title fight, there are 8Oz gloves. But here there 6 Oz. Corum did say it was Odd they were 6Oz, and it might effect Marciano's punching power.

So in the Moore fight, they were 6 Oz gloves, and yet the damage Marciano gave to Moore, and ****ell were about the same.

[tommyhearns804]

Why are we still having polls about some worthless piece of crap like Marciano?First let Marciano fight Corley Wallace and not get knocked out in 1 round,or have him fight a 45 year old man like Archie Moore and not get knocked down with one punch and take 8 rounds to knock out a fighter who was knocked out many times in one round by men his own size.
When Marciano can do that then maybe you put him in the same league as a Tyson.Even then Marciano gets knocked out in one round.