Lennox Lewis Or Sonny Liston?

[General Zod]

Lewis chose to fight 6 white-skinned fighters rather than fight the black americans who was at the top of their game and belt holders.

Do I even need to comment on this quote?

[sonnyboyx2]

not once in all the drivel you have posted have you put up any evidence to prove me wrong, everything i have claimed about Lewis is correct which is why you tried to make a deal with me saying if i stopped telling it how it really was about Lewis you would stop rubbishing Roy Jones... i dont give a **** about Roy Jones or any other fighter for that matter, i am only interested in boxing history and the FACTS, but you dont want the facts mentioned, you want to live in this little dream world where you can say Lennox Lewis beat Tyson and Tyson was scared of him and that Lewis beat everyone he fought etc etc... but i am a big thorn in your side because i tell it like it really was about Lewis and about every fighter and the truth hurts.. you have even changed your member name repeatedly on this forum because your a fanboy who has been proved wrong, your never going to change my opinion because i believe my opinion to be the truth.

[General Zod]

not once in all the drivel you have posted have you put up any evidence to prove me wrong, everything i have claimed about Lewis is correct

Dude, dont you get tired of this? All you do is state opinons as facts and misquote articles which dont even support your claims. On top of that you hold Lewis to a standard which you refuse to apply to other fighters. Maybe he should of drained his opponents or maybe he should of roided for a couple of fights, like you know who.

You give Lewis no credit for beating Ruddock, but what about Pac beating Cotto, is that really much different to you? What about Tyson and a washed up Larry Holmes?

Tyson can bite fighters and try to break arms, but his a great fighter to you.
Pacquiao can cherry pick as he moves up the divisions but he is a great fighter according to you?

which is why you tried to make a deal with me saying if i stopped telling it how it really was about Lewis you would stop rubbishing Roy Jones... i dont give a **** about Roy Jones or any other fighter for that matter, i am only interested in boxing history and the FACTS

Do your fellow posters hear want to listen to your so called "facts"?

but you dont want the facts mentioned, you want to live in this little dream world where you can say Lennox Lewis beat Tyson and Tyson was scared of him and that Lewis beat everyone he fought etc etc

But its true

... but i am a big thorn in your side because i tell it like it really was about Lewis and about every fighter and the truth hurts.. you have even changed your member name repeatedly on this forum because your a fanboy who has been proved wrong,

If you remember my old usertitle its stated clearly the names I used, hardly hiding am I
for your information:
Afrosamurai
agentsmith
Thegoosen
Hellboy

your never going to change my opinion because i believe my opinion to be the truth.

You hate Lewis for reasons outside of boxing. Lewis left boxing a millionaire and with his health in tact, which most fighters dont do. I have met him a number of times and he was cool. He also built a college for troubled kids in London some years back. He will be remembered as a ATG and one of Britains best fighters

What will you be remembered for?

[sonnyboyx2]

Dude, dont you get tired of this? All you do is state opinons as facts and misquote articles which dont even support your claims. On top of that you hold Lewis to a standard which you refuse to apply to other fighters.

You give Lewis no credit for beating Ruddock, but what about Pac beating Cotto, is that really much different to you? What about Tyson and a washed up Larry Holmes?

Tyson can bite fighters and try to break arms, but his a great fighter to you.
Pacquiao can cherry pick as he moves up the divisions but he is a great fighter according to you?

Do your fellow posters hear want to listen to your so called "facts"?

But its true

If you remember my old usertitle its stated clearly the names I used, hardly hiding am I
for your information:
Afrosamurai
agentsmith
Thegoosen
Hellboy

You hate Lewis for reasons outside of boxing. Lewis left boxing a millionaire and with his health in tact, which most fighters dont do. I have met him a number of times and he was cool. He also built a college for troubled kids in London some years back. He will be remembered as a ATG and one of Britains best fighters

What will you be remembered for?

Lewis vs Ruddock was one of the best nights of my life, i was at Earls court to watch that fight and it was electrifying, but with hindsight Ruddock was "Damaged-Goods" i seen him talking to Larry Merchant at ringside and Ruddock as much as said he was not acclimatised to the cold weather in Britain (October 31st) but it was still a brilliant victory from Lewis and i for one thought he would go on to be a great champion, i was at the Bruno fight and came away thinking Lewis looked terrible, i was at the McCall fight and had grave doubts before the opening bell about Lewis and McCall proved those doubts correct.. i continued to follow Lewis career very closely hoping he would fight Tyson, Bowe or Holyfield but soon came to the conclusion that Lewis would never again be fighting any elite fighter who was at the top of their game, he hand-picked a bunch of tomato cans and hasbeens who was on the downside of their careers, i could see who Lewis should have been fighting but knew that he would never accept those big fights.. when Lewis vs Morrison was announced i thought geeeeze Morrison was butchered in the opening round by Micheal Bent why is Lewis fighting him and not Rid**** Bowe or Tim Witherspoon, when Lewis vs Tua was announced i thought "Now Lewis is in a real fight" but photographs of Tua appeared in the press in the build-up to the fight and David Tua was weighing nearly 300lbs, he managed to get down to 255lbs on fight night but it was a lost cause because he had blew it months earlier by being so grossly out of shape... Lewis must have known that David Tua was weighing nearly 300lbs which is why he agreed to fight... fighters know who is dangerous and who is not dangerous, they know who is in shape and who is out of shape... Lewis continued that trend to the end of his career, never fighting fighters who was at the top of their game and only fighting hasbeens...

Mike Tyson beat Larry Holmes and then Holmes went 21-3 with 2 more world title shots.. so Holmes was far from washed up when Tyson beat him..

fellow posters often PM me to say they agree and that my posts are spot-on and interesting reading..

if you believe your dream world to be true then you carry on believing it and we can carry on our debate for the foreseeable fututre

Lewis left boxing with his career earning around the £70 million mark, both Tyson & Holyfield made in excess of £250 million... Lennox Lewis could have made that kind of money and i am sure he would have like to have made that kind of money, but he was not willing to step-up to the challenge of the big fights.

Bowe - £12 million
Tyson - $13.5 million
Jones - $35 million
Vitali - $30 million
Wlad - $$$$$$
Moorer - $$$$$
Holmes - $$$$$
Foreman - $$$$$
Hide - $$$$$$$

All fights which Lewis turned down because the risk was too high.

[General Zod]

Lewis vs Ruddock was one of the best nights of my life, i was at Earls court to watch that fight and it was electrifying, but with hindsight Ruddock was "Damaged-Goods" i seen him talking to Larry Merchant at ringside and Ruddock as much as said he was not acclimatised to the cold weather in Britain (October 31st) but it was still a brilliant victory from Lewis and i for one thought he would go on to be a great champion,

I watched it live on TV, I thought Lewis was going to get killed. In hindsight yes Ruddock was basically finished after the Tyson wars. He just didn't have the skills to cope with that version of Tyson

i was at the Bruno fight and came away thinking Lewis looked terrible,

true, he did look amaterish at times, I was hoping Bruno would win as well

i was at the McCall fight and had grave doubts before the opening bell about Lewis and McCall proved those doubts correct..

Nothing I can say about that

i continued to follow Lewis career very closely hoping he would fight Tyson, Bowe or Holyfield but soon came to the conclusion that Lewis would never again be fighting any elite fighter who was at the top of their game, he hand-picked a bunch of tomato cans and hasbeens who was on the downside of their careers, i could see who Lewis should have been fighting but knew that he would never accept those big fights.. when Lewis vs Morrison was announced i thought geeeeze Morrison was butchered in the opening round by Micheal Bent why is Lewis fighting him and not Rid**** Bowe or Tim Witherspoon,

I dont know the background behind the Morrision fight, wasn't Lewis's mandatory?
Rid**** Bowe? No comment
Tim Witherspoon was a great fighter but he had his problems with King he would of been a great opponent for Lewis, Tyson ofr Holyfield

when Lewis vs Tua was announced i thought "Now Lewis is in a real fight" but photographs of Tua appeared in the press in the build-up to the fight and David Tua was weighing nearly 300lbs, he managed to get down to 255lbs on fight night but it was a lost cause because he had blew it months earlier by being so grossly out of shape... Lewis must have known that David Tua was weighing nearly 300lbs which is why he agreed to fight...

you dont know that

Mike Tyson beat Larry Holmes and then Holmes went 21-3 with 2 more world title shots.. so Holmes was far from washed up when Tyson beat him..

That wasnt my point, my point was that Holmes had only a month or so to prepare even tyson would say that Holmes looked fat and out of shape (which he was)

fellow posters often PM me to say they agree and that my posts are spot-on and interesting reading..

fair enough

if you believe your dream world to be true then you carry on believing it and we can carry on our debate for the foreseeable fututre

Nah, I fell we are going in circles

Lewis left boxing with his career earning around the £70 million mark, both Tyson & Holyfield made in excess of £250 million... Lennox Lewis could have made that kind of money and i am sure he would have like to have made that kind of money, but he was not willing to step-up to the challenge of the big fights.

The funny thing about this is that Tyson and Holyfield are both millions of pounds in debt and Lewis is a millionaire

Bowe - £12 million
Tyson - $13.5 million
Jones - $35 million
Vitali - $30 million
Wlad - $$$$$$
Moorer - $$$$$
Holmes - $$$$$
Foreman - $$$$$
Hide - $$$$$$$

All fights which Lewis turned down because the risk was too high.

we are going to have to agree to disagree

[-CANE-]

Roy Jones didn't get Koed plum in the middle of his prime (like Lewis did with McCall). Roy went 13 years without one legit loss, and then, past his prime, lost 3 bouts to mediocre fighters.

If you're suggesting Lewis was in his prime when he fought McCall then your not as knowledgable as I thought.

He was a very clumsy, awkward fighter often off balance and usually wide open with his chin in the air and his feet to far apart. He became the great technical fighter he was after that defeat. By the time he fought Mercer he was a much more complete fighter. You could also say he actually grew up that night and became a man. I think this was probably his best all round performance in his career. Slag off Mercer all you want and say Holmes handled him easier it don't mean ****. I don't think I recall Mercer looking better than he was in the Lewis fight. It was a close, competitive, engaging fight with both fighters giving and taking a lot. Lewis showed in that fight he had what it takes and his range of punches and his combos were excellent that night especially for a man his size. He beat a very good Mercer that night, not easily. He probably could of beat him a lot easier and boxed to a UD but he chose to stand his ground and fight Mercer at his own game, more so than Holyfield did and a lot more than Holmes did. He beat Mercer the hard way my friend.

You also say Tyson and Holyfield were way past their best, well I think Lewis lost something between the Mavrovic and Holyfield fight. He was just starting to slide himself and he wasn't as quick or as fit. His stamina never his greatest asset had also seemed to be effected by this time. I think he did very well to last as long as he did and he got out at the right time.

None of these are excuses just an honest assesment of how I saw his career from beginning to end. I saw every fight from his first to last and went to several live. I have 10,000 fights and nearly every heavweight title fight. I have studied all of them and IMO he is up their with Ali,Louis and Holmes as the top 4 heavyweights ever. Whether you are ranking them on achievments or head to head, Lewis for me will always rise to the top just like cream.

[boxing boy]

Sonny Liston had the best left jab in heavyweight history imo.

And Liston's reach was as long as Lewis's reach was.

Liston also had one of the best chin's in heavyweight history.The only time he was really KO'd was when he was over 40 years old.The 2nd fight with Ali was a fixed fight.The 1st fight he was not KO'd,he quit because Ali was showing him up like SRL did to Roberto Duran.Liston also quit because he had an injured shoulder.It's not like Ali was hurting him.I believe Liston could take Lewis's best shots.Watch Liston's fights against Cleveland "big cat" Williams,who had a murderous left hook.

So

[them_apples]

Lewis. Liston get's overrated on these boards by all the boxing historians.

Yes he hammered light heavyweight Patterson, but Frazier Hammered light heavyweight Foster as well.

Liston as a strong dude with a heavy jab, but he's simply not as good and didn't do as much as Lennox Lewis. Ali wooped Listons ass because he was better and Liston simply wasn't THAT good. Liston is a good Hw, better than most of the comp right now, but he's not an ATG.

[them_apples]

Sonny Liston had the best left jab in heavyweight history imo.

And Liston's reach was as long as Lewis's reach was.

Liston also had one of the best chin's in heavyweight history.The only time he was really KO'd was when he was over 40 years old.The 2nd fight with Ali was a fixed fight.The 1st fight he was not KO'd,he quit because Ali was showing him up like SRL did to Roberto Duran.Liston also quit because he had an injured shoulder.It's not like Ali was hurting him.I believe Liston could take Lewis's best shots.Watch Liston's fights against Cleveland "big cat" Williams,who had a murderous left hook.

So

Holmes Jab was better than Listons, Ali's jab was better than Listons. Any one with long arms is going to have a good jab. Liston had a good jab but he was very slow.

[Schmerzen]

Holmes Jab was better than Listons, Ali's jab was better than Listons. Any one with long arms is going to have a good jab. Liston had a good jab but he was very slow.

liston had an underrated head movement and a good left hook, he had the weapons to give a prime lewis all kinds of troubles.
he was just unlucky to face a peak ali right after his 1. title defense against patterson.
liston was 10x the fighter rahman or mccall were, yet they both pwned lewis with just one punch.
i have nothing against the ppl who rate lennox lewis over sonny liston in ATG lists, but head 2 head i have to go with liston.
his style would be a nightmare for the pugilist specialist.