Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[billeau2]

Frazier lost 4 times to 2 all time greats.

He gave the consensus all time no 1, 3 great fights,and had to be rescued against the thunderous hitting Foreman because he refused to quit Anyone put Brewster,Purity,Sanders in that category?

A nearly 38years old Frazier 20 odd lbs over his best weight came out of a 5 1/2years retirement and struggled to draw with Jumbo Cummings so lets dump on him for that.

I can't directly engage with these," people ,"it leaves such a nasty taste in my mouth.

Another Frazier Accolade: Fought one of the most highly regarded punchers and never even backed up... (Foster). Frazier not only was different mentally than the fighters of the 80's and 90's mentioned, but in his actual prime was a veritable human buzz saw. Many people in the know feel Frazier was well past it when he lost to Foreman.

[Dr. Z]

I'll call it. Ivich W 15 over Dr. Z.
You can't win em all Doc, that's tha way of the world.

And as a finishing blow, Jumbo Cummings beats some of those guys who got over on the Prime time Klitschko brothers. Lol. Butterbean Esch won allot of fights too.

You entitled to call em as you see em. But Ivich's examples of Brewster and Sanders are that of the likes that Frazier never beat. That is a fact as is Frazier didn't have many fights. And he didn't beat punchers in Sanders or Brewsters class. I have had talks with Joe Frazier aficionados and is a point that lacking in his resume.

I have said before that Frazier never meet puncher's in Liston, Norton, Lyle or Shavers! In fact it pains me to say it but Ivich agrees. He did meet Foreman twice and was down five times in just seven rounds! Frazier did not have a good chin. It's there on film and chins are best graded when they are hit which in Fraziers case featured quite a few matches where he was he had his knees buckled despite hardly being hit in the fight. See the Bruce fight, the Stander fight, and the Bugner fight.

[JAB5239]

You entitled to call em as you see em. But Ivich's examples of Brewster and Sanders are that of the likes that Frazier never beat. That is a fact as is Frazier didn't have many fights. And he didn't beat punchers in Sanders or Brewsters class. I have had talks with Joe Frazier aficionados and is a point that lacking in his resume.

I have said before that Frazier never meet puncher's in Liston, Norton, Lyle or Shavers! In fact it pains me to say it but Ivich agrees. He did meet Foreman twice and was down five times in just seven rounds! Frazier did not have a good chin. It's there on film and chins are best graded when they are hit which in Fraziers case featured quite a few matches where he was he had his knees buckled despite hardly being hit in the fight. See the Bruce fight, the Stander fight, and the Bugner fight.

Besides Wlad, who were the great fighters Brewster and Sanders knocked out?

[Ivich]

Besides Wlad, who were the great fighters Brewster and Sanders knocked out?

Frazier was stopped 3 times once by Ali who, despite what casuals think hit pretty hard when he came down off his toes and set himself to punch,thirty seven stoppages in fifty six wins.

Frazier only faced one top drawer ****er ,but he met quite a few good punchers like Quarry,Bonavena,Ellis,Ramos,Stander,Chuvalo ,of those only Oscar floored him and imo that was a bit of a premature match up for Joe. Ali said Ringo shook him up in their fight.
Jumbo Cummings could ****, I watched him detonate a shot on Frank Bruno just as the bell rang.Bruno's manager sleep walked him back to his corner. Mike Bruce briefly dropped a young Frazier.
What those who have never boxed often do not take on board is that guys like Frazier,and Louis,were always taking the fight to their opponents,initiating the action,this leaves a fighter more vulnerable to shots than the guys who box off the back foot,looking to counter,and not committing to attacks.

Frazier didn't have a Chuvalo type jaw,[few did,] but it certainly wasn't suspect .

Buster Mathis hit hard enough to floor Chuck Wepner,but he couldnt make a dent in Smokin Joe.
Foreman ,who had an excellent chin, was floored by light punching Young because he was coming into the punch,thereby dramatically increasing the effect of the punch.

imo If Frazier's chin was that bad he wouldn't have been able to keep getting up from George's
thunderbolts .
The right punch ,in the right place ,at the right time can get the job done.Benitez and Nunn neither of whom were big ****ers,both scored one punch ko's.
Apologies for typing stuff I'm sure you are already fully cognizant of,I'm just thinking out loud really.

[Dr. Z]

Besides Wlad, who were the great fighters Brewster and Sanders knocked out?

And @ Ivich

Listen to yourself. Who were the other great fighters? Raise the bar higher why don't you? My point were big they were punchers and their KO record indicates. If you want to really review Frazier chin level he was down five times in seven rounds vs. the one he fought and didn't face another's...at least not in the class of Sanders or Brewster.

Enough of Cummings who probably edged Joe Frazer when the fought him in a fight that was thankfully called a draw. Which know heavyweights did he knock out? I took at look at his record and the known names like Snipes, Simms, Smims, Witherspoon, and Bruno. Like Frazier he didn't KO one the them! His " power " is built on the worst type of 4-39 and 0-16 fighters! Landing a good one on the chinny Bruno proves it not very good! Sure Cummings can ****....vs. the bottom shelved tomato cans.

[JAB5239]

And @ Ivich

Listen to yourself. Who were the other great fighters? Raise the bar higher why don't you? My point were big they were punchers and their KO record indicates. If you want to really review Frazier chin level he was down five times in seven rounds vs. the one he fought and didn't face another's...at least not in the class of Sanders or Brewster.

Enough of Cummings who probably edged Joe Frazer when the fought him in a fight that was thankfully called a draw. Which know heavyweights did he knock out? I took at look at his record and the known names like Snipes, Simms, Smims, Witherspoon, and Bruno. Like Frazier he didn't KO one the them! His " power " is built on the worst type of 4-39 and 0-16 fighters! Landing a good one on the chinny Bruno proves it not very good! Sure Cummings can ****....vs. the bottom shelved tomato cans.

Wow, you really are something. You've completely left out the fact Frazier was out of boxing for five and a half years. I guess that mean nothing in your world. I can yell you from personal experience it means a lot. At level Frazier was at, and the style he fought.....it means even more. But hey, why would you take that into consideration, right?

[Ivich]

Wow, you really are something. You've completely left out the fact Frazier was out of boxing for five and a half years. I guess that mean nothing in your world. I can yell you from personal experience it means a lot. At level Frazier was at, and the style he fought.....it means even more. But hey, why would you take that into consideration, right?

As I pointed out,you are beginning to know him now.
He has three hobby horses he never misses a chance to disparage.
Jack Johnson
Joe Louis.
Joe Frazier
He is quite happy to stick a knife into Muhammad Ali's ribs too if the opportunity presents itself.

The counter balance to this is
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko
James Jeffries
Are untouchable gods that can do no wrong.

[QueensburyRules]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;n31641669]

Lineal and Ring champion. End of debate, Turd gobbler.

- - Lineal a Candyland Michel Jackson Never Never Land fantasy.

Awarded the Ring title after Weaver KOed John Tate who knocked out Coetzee in South Africa, the huge money fight Tubby Lar who was still skinny then ducked for the WBA title.

You know, the WBA champs Lar managed to duck back then. In short, he never beat the Ring Champ nor fought for the Ring Title. Don King paid Ring for the title of Tubby Lar who was still skinny then whose title record against champs holding a title won in the ring is still an ignoble 0-6, 0 KO. Even Leon has a better record!

Thanks for the memories of that gawd forsaken era of stink.

[Willow The Wisp]

And @ Ivich

Listen to yourself. Who were the other great fighters? Raise the bar higher why don't you? My point were big they were punchers and their KO record indicates. If you want to really review Frazier chin level he was down five times in seven rounds vs. the one he fought and didn't face another's...at least not in the class of Sanders or Brewster.

Enough of Cummings who probably edged Joe Frazer when the fought him in a fight that was thankfully called a draw. Which know heavyweights did he knock out? I took at look at his record and the known names like Snipes, Simms, Smims, Witherspoon, and Bruno. Like Frazier he didn't KO one the them! His " power " is built on the worst type of 4-39 and 0-16 fighters! Landing a good one on the chinny Bruno proves it not very good! Sure Cummings can ****....vs. the bottom shelved tomato cans.

Lol. Boxrec surfing will tell you about 10% of what should be known about Floyd Jumbo Cummings!!
Frazier kept getting up. Sanders and Bruster (and Ross the Boss??!!). Comparing those goys to Foreman? Stop. Vlad gets ground down and pounded and Vitali gets customarily wooden and busted up, Wholly unable to keep the perpetually moving Frazier on the outside. The Klitschko Brothers - Both great fighters combining to utterly dominate their era, both Hall of fame level champions, and both architecturally built to specification to be easy work for a 1970-71 Smokin' Joe Frazier!

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n31642901]

- - Lineal a Candyland Michel Jackson Never Never Land fantasy.

Awarded the Ring title after Weaver KOed John Tate who knocked out Coetzee in South Africa, the huge money fight Tubby Lar who was still skinny then ducked for the WBA title.

You know, the WBA champs Lar managed to duck back then. In short, he never beat the Ring Champ nor fought for the Ring Title. Don King paid Ring for the title of Tubby Lar who was still skinny then whose title record against champs holding a title won in the ring is still an ignoble 0-6, 0 KO. Even Leon has a better record!

Thanks for the memories of that gawd forsaken era of stink.

Sorry Turd gobbler, you propaganda and baiting don't work. You've been exposed to many times on this topic.