George Foreman, the Man who made the man that is falsely proclaimed as the man in box

[The Troll]

Ali not ancient when he fought Spinks? Put the crack pipe down; it's time for some rehab. Ali was not the same fighter he was in his prime as early as 1970. The Ali that fought Frazier in the first fight had already slowed down and so no longer as quick on his feet. This is a FACT, not my opinion.

Todays heavyweights may suck so bad that there's little difference between how they fight at 30 and 34 but back when heavyweight boxers were talented athletes and the division was as fiercely competitive as the lower weightclasses, you were considered an old man at 34. Hell Holyfield at 34 was consider an old guy when he fought Tyson and that was in 1996. It's only recently that the heavyweights have gotten so bad that the older guys can still hang on and middleweights can invade the division.

He was spry enough to win a UD over Shavers 5 months prior.

[Kid Achilles]

So? Shavers, though he was a hard puncher, was beaten by Tex Cobb, Ron Lyle, journeyman Ron Standers (knocked out in five rounds!!), and KO'ed in a single round by Jerry Quarry. In addition to this, he was decisioned by a guy named Bob Stallings who had a 20-24-0 record.

Aside from punching power, Shavers just wasn't a very good boxer.

[Floydmayweather]

Ali had a mental edge over everyone and his losses except were the first Frasier fight which was just after a 3 year layoff was due to being an old man. And Foreman would never beat Ali took his best shots and just said is that as hard as you can hit. He would do that in every time they fought and after the first fight Forman would doubt himself and lose even worse. ALi is the greatest look at who he beat and how. Not to mention his best years were taken away and he still won. Peace

[Shaolin Bushido]

LOL at the title of this thread. Muhammad Ali, actually Cassius Clay in his prime is the GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION EVA!!!

[Derranged_]

MCKay, I agree with you that Foreman made his fights with Frasier and Norton look like "no sweat" but this is hardly the case when he fought Lyle. Foreman's bout with Lyle was a slug fest that resembled a Rocky bout and any guy could've won. Foreman if you forgot, was knocked down twice in that bout.

On the otherhand, when Ali fought Lyle at no point in the fight was Ali in danger of losing. As to the stoppage, Lyle would've been eventually stopped via KO or TKO by Ali. There's no doubt about that.

The point is; some fighters match up better than do others. Example; Norton and Frasier gave Ali much trouble while Foreman had no trouble at all. The same can be said about Lyle and Jimmy Young giving Foreman the same trouble.(Ali beat Young,Young beat Foreman)

McKay, I've noticed you haven't touched my argument.Is that because you rewatched the Lyle vs Foreman and Ali fights?

[The Troll]

McKay, I've noticed you haven't touched my argument.Is that because you rewatched the Lyle vs Foreman and Ali fights?

I dont know why you are trying to make a big deal out of the Lyle fight. Foreman was knocked down twice in the 4th but the point is he got up like a true champion and put Lyle on his ass and kept him there in the 5th like a true champion does. Knocked his ass his out cold.

Ali on other hand against Lyle was loosing every single round, then all ALi he did was flurry wildly once in the 8th round and the ref came in stopped the fight. One of the worst stoppages ever. Lyle was not hurt or anything, Ali was not even connecting with Lyle in most of that flurry. If the ref did not pull that bull**** stoppage Ali was doomed to lose a Wide UD.

[Derranged_]

I dont know why you are trying to make a big deal out of the Lyle fight. Foreman was knocked down twice in the 4th but the point is he got up like a true champion and put Lyle on his ass and kept him there in the 5th like a true champion does. Knocked his ass his out cold.

Ali on other hand against Lyle was loosing every single round, then all ALi he did was flurry wildly once in the 8th round and the ref came in stopped the fight. One of the worst stoppages ever. Lyle was not hurt or anything, Ali was not even connecting with Lyle in most of that flurry. If the ref did not pull that bull**** stoppage Ali was doomed to lose a Wide UD.

For the record, Ali wasn't losing every round and if the ref did not stop the fight then, he would've stopped it sooner or later because Lyle was getting hit with clean shots otherwise he wouldn't have fell back on the ropes. Can anyone else on this forum who has seen the fight either comfirm my assertions or McKay's?

[BadMagick]

Muhammad ALi is so overrated, Sonny Liston was an opium addict or something when ALi fought him and took a dive the second time, and that is the shamefull way ALI won the title. Then Ali lost to a bunch of B class oponnents like Ken Norton in 1971, and Leon Spinks c class oponnent in 1978, and Ali was not ancient when he fought Spinks like you would like to make out he was like 35 or something. I will give him a free pass on the HOlmes fight even though he was only 38. Most of the heavyweights today are 38 and still fighting. Lennox was like 38 when he beat Klistchko.

And Ali was loosing without question on points to LYle but the ref came in and stopped the fight the first time ALI flurried is was a scam and ridiculous.



This is simply a fact

If Ali never beat Foreman there is no way you could possibly contend he was the greatest fighter ever, hence, Foreman is responsible for making Ali the legend he is so many of your minds.

Foreman would have KO'd ALI if they ever re-matched in good old Las Vegas at a regular venue. Without a buch of AFricans screaming die Foreman die in 100 degree heat. Ali can thank the African heat and climate for his victory over Foreman, that rope-a-dope style of his in the 70's was purely ***** ass. I will give credit to ALI though the guy did know how to coverup.

Saying he wasn't old in that fight is like saying Roy Jones wasn't old in his fights against Tarver and Johnson. It's ****ing ******ed.

Foreman would have lost ANYWHERE, because he punched himself out. Yeah, the heat contributed to it, but he would have punched himself out later in the fight, because he was pissed off, and tried to kill Ali. Also, Ali PROBABLY wouldn't have done the same thing if it wasn't in Africa, so Foreman still loses, but this time by UD.

I fail to see how your opinion on a matter suddenly becomes fact. Ali would be considered one of the greatest fighter ever, with or without fighting Big George. He's more recognizable because of it, but it was not his career defining fight. He would ALWAYS be considered great for the way he danced around the ring, his reflexes, and his hand speed, which were extraordinary for a heavy weight. No one says, "Ali is the greatest because he beat Foreman by laying on the ropes," they say, "He moved like no other heavyweight ever," which we saw NONE of in the the Rumble in the Jungle.

[kapersky]

of course ali was far away from his prime vs spinks,holmes etc he had been in several wars than any fighter, i cant see how he still could keep fighting after vs fraizer 1(all those lefthook he took from fraizer). but he did and and became champion. i like those with big heart,will and chin than puncher like mike tyson he did some great(in his prime) thing and ko a lot of fighter but in witch fight did he show a true champion heart?, if he cant ko he got ko. but ali on the other hand always came back and keep fighting even when he was hurt he keep continue or even if he loss or win he still a winner.

[The Troll]

Saying he wasn't old in that fight is like saying Roy Jones wasn't old in his fights against Tarver and Johnson. It's ****ing ******ed.

Foreman would have lost ANYWHERE, because he punched himself out. Yeah, the heat contributed to it, but he would have punched himself out later in the fight, because he was pissed off, and tried to kill Ali. Also, Ali PROBABLY wouldn't have done the same thing if it wasn't in Africa, so Foreman still loses, but this time by UD.

I fail to see how your opinion on a matter suddenly becomes fact. Ali would be considered one of the greatest fighter ever, with or without fighting Big George. He's more recognizable because of it, but it was not his career defining fight. He would ALWAYS be considered great for the way he danced around the ring, his reflexes, and his hand speed, which were extraordinary for a heavy weight. No one says, "Ali is the greatest because he beat Foreman by laying on the ropes," they say, "He moved like no other heavyweight ever," which we saw NONE of in the the Rumble in the Jungle.

How would anybody be able to contend that ALI was the greatest boxer of all time if his only quality wins came against Frazier, who he lost to and struggled to death with, Liston who was an opium addict and involved with the mafia and ****. And especially considering he lost to Norton and Frazier and George destroyed both of them, and that takes alot of credibility out of the wins Ali got from Frazier and Norton. It would be impossible to contend that ALi was the greatest ever simply because he beat Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson. Struggled to death with Frazier who Foreman obliterated, struggled to death with Norton who Foreman obliterated.

YOu would be going on the Sonny Liston win alone. Liston did not even care about boxig by the time Ali fought him. What did Liston do in boxing after loosing to ALI? Absolutely nothing, he fought a few more fights made a bid for the NABF title and was knocked out in the 5th.