George Foreman, the Man who made the man that is falsely proclaimed as the man in box

[kapersky]

How would anybody be able to contend that ALI was the greatest boxer of all time if his only quality wins came against Frazier, who he lost to and struggled to death with, Liston who was an opium addict and involved with the mafia and ****. And especially considering he lost to Norton and Frazier and George destroyed both of them, and that takes alot of credibility out of the wins Ali got from Frazier and Norton. It would be impossible to contend that ALi was the greatest ever simply because he beat Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson. Struggled to death with Frazier who Foreman obliterated, struggled to death with Norton who Foreman obliterated.

YOu would be going on the Sonny Liston win alone. Liston did not even care about boxig by the time Ali fought him. What did Liston do in boxing after loosing to ALI? Absolutely nothing, he fought a few more fights made a bid for the NABF title and was knocked out in the 5th.

he lost to them both but beated them later that is a true warrior, and he ko foreman,liston and fough the best att that time and beat them all and he wasent in his prime. but foreman was probably his best win.

[Floydmayweather]

Ali beat 3 heavyweights which are regarded as top 10 all time. He beat 2 Foreman, and Frasier outside of his prime. Through in wins over Shavers, Quarry, Floyd Patterson, among others and you have the greatest Heavyweight ever, Ali!

[Imira]

McKay, you say Ali struggled with Frazier and Norton. I don't know what you're trying to imply, but Frazier is no tomato can. It takes a hell of a lot to beat that man in the ring. If Ali tried to take Frazier lightly at any time, he would get killed. Plain and simple. Norton gave Ali trouble because of his style, which was meant to counter Ali's. I don't care who you are, but if one person trained exculsively to beat you, you've got a real fight on your hands. You can't admonish Ali for his fights against two future hall of famers and then turn around and ignore the fact that Foreman blew out nobody of note before he fought Frazier and (even he said himself) he was lucky to even get his title shot when he did.

Also, you're making the usual argument that, Foreman destroyed Norton and Frazier. So what? He's a heavy handed puncher. That's his style. Ali struggled with them. So what? He's a boxer. The style differences must be taken into account.

I'm not taking anything away from Foreman, but try to give Ali a little more respect, because, no matter how much you want the facts to go away, Ali KO'd Foreman in 8 rounds in 1974. Period.

Also, you need to get your facts straight. Liston was KO'd in the 9th round in his bid for the NABF title. He also went 14 fights without a single loss over a 3 year period. That's more than "a few fights".

[The Troll]

McKay, you say Ali struggled with Frazier and Norton. I don't know what you're trying to imply, but Frazier is no tomato can. It takes a hell of a lot to beat that man in the ring. If Ali tried to take Frazier lightly at any time, he would get killed. Plain and simple. Norton gave Ali trouble because of his style, which was meant to counter Ali's. I don't care who you are, but if one person trained exculsively to beat you, you've got a real fight on your hands. You can't admonish Ali for his fights against two future hall of famers and then turn around and ignore the fact that Foreman blew out nobody of note before he fought Frazier and (even he said himself) he was lucky to even get his title shot when he did.

Also, you're making the usual argument that, Foreman destroyed Norton and Frazier. So what? He's a heavy handed puncher. That's his style. Ali struggled with them. So what? He's a boxer. The style differences must be taken into account.

I'm not taking anything away from Foreman, but try to give Ali a little more respect, because, no matter how much you want the facts to go away, Ali KO'd Foreman in 8 rounds in 1974. Period.

Also, you need to get your facts straight. Liston was KO'd in the 9th round in his bid for the NABF title. He also went 14 fights without a single loss over a 3 year period. That's more than "a few fights".

Of course Norton trained to specifically beat Ali, so do all fighters in when preparing for their upcoming opponent, they train specifically to beat that opponent. Especially if they are facing Cassius Clay for a heavyweight title they train extra hard and for extra amount of time.

Like right now while Tzyu is sparring in Australia he asks his sparring partners to try to simulate fighting him the same way Ricky Hatton fights. All fighters do this, all fighters probably have always done this.

Your saying that because Norton was exceptionally well prepared for his fight against Ali, his glory in winning that fight is diminished, that is quite ridiculous logic.

[Derranged_]

I just watched the"rumble" for the 100th time on ESPN classic and there is no doubt in my mind that Ali would've beat Foreman anytime before 1974 when he was in his prime. Ali dominated the whole fight from beginning to finish. George Foreman didn't stand a chance, he was just outclassed in every way. Ali landed every jab,right cross, and combination at will and basically used Foreman's face as a punching bag. When I hear people make excuses for Foreman saying 'he punched himself out and he should've boxed in the middle of ring', I laugh because the same results would've occurred; George Foreman being outboxed and knocked out because he had no defense whatsoever against Ali's superior boxing skills.

What I will admit is; After the 'thrilla' with Frasier, Ali was very much past his prime and showing the first signs of Parkinsons disease and would have not been able to withstand Foreman's power and aggressiveness. If Ali and Foreman had rematched in period, I believe Ali would've been Ko'd by George. But if you match up Ali-Foreman in his prime, Ali wins everytime no doubt.

[wmute]

Of course Norton trained to specifically beat Ali, so do all fighters in when preparing for their upcoming opponent, they train specifically to beat that opponent. Especially if they are facing Cassius Clay for a heavyweight title they train extra hard and for extra amount of time.

Like right now while Tzyu is sparring in Australia he asks his sparring partners to try to simulate fighting him the same way Ricky Hatton fights. All fighters do this, all fighters probably have always done this.

Your saying that because Norton was exceptionally well prepared for his fight against Ali, his glory in winning that fight is diminished, that is quite ridiculous logic.

I will try to make it simple for you

zoo is training for hatton now, right?

but he was not training for hatton say 2 years ago, right?

norton trained for ali before the fight, right? just like zoo...
but

norton started training for ali a long time before fighting him

also styles make fights: duran almost decisioned hagler, who KOed Hearns in 3, who KOed duran in 2 with one punch...

that's the same case with ali-foreman-frazier (or norton)

in particular for norton, why was he able to be a problem for ali?

1)jab, and defense from jab
2)pressure
3)fight plan: cut off plus go to the body

is any of this useful against foreman? no

why does ali beat foreman?
1)chin
2)heart
3)smarts
4)handspeed
5)chin
6)chin
...

did he need those against norton? well chin, heart and smarts, of course, but not in the same amount needed to beat big george.
and his handspeed was neutralized by norton tactic and defense

[The_One77]

I just watched the"rumble" for the 100th time on ESPN classic and there is no doubt in my mind that Ali would've beat Foreman anytime before 1974 when he was in his prime. Ali dominated the whole fight from beginning to finish. George Foreman didn't stand a chance, he was just outclassed in every way. Ali landed every jab,right cross, and combination at will and basically used Foreman's face as a punching bag. When I hear people make excuses for Foreman saying 'he punched himself out and he should've boxed in the middle of ring', I laugh because the same results would've occurred; George Foreman being outboxed and knocked out because he had no defense whatsoever against Ali's superior boxing skills.

What I will admit is; After the 'thrilla' with Frasier, Ali was very much past his prime and showing the first signs of Parkinsons disease and would have not been able to withstand Foreman's power and aggressiveness. If Ali and Foreman had rematched in period, I believe Ali would've been Ko'd by George. But if you match up Ali-Foreman in his prime, Ali wins everytime no doubt.

yeah, i h8 it when people say that foreman was beating the **** out of ali against the ropes for the whole 8 rounds, they forget to mention that ali dominated the fight and landed most of the punches at foreman. Foreman was not skilled enough to beat ali, although ali was on the ropes he also was beating foreman to the punch and defending most of foreman's punches.
So i don't see foreman really beating ali in a rematch.

Ali: He's nothing but a slow moving mummy... when i'm finished with him he'll have so many nicks and cuts he'll look like he had a bad morning shave.

[Imira]

I will try to make it simple for you

zoo is training for hatton now, right?

but he was not training for hatton say 2 years ago, right?

norton trained for ali before the fight, right? just like zoo...
but

norton started training for ali a long time before fighting him

also styles make fights: duran almost decisioned hagler, who KOed Hearns in 3, who KOed duran in 2 with one punch...

that's the same case with ali-foreman-frazier (or norton)

in particular for norton, why was he able to be a problem for ali?

1)jab, and defense from jab
2)pressure
3)fight plan: cut off plus go to the body

is any of this useful against foreman? no

why does ali beat foreman?
1)chin
2)heart
3)smarts
4)handspeed
5)chin
6)chin
...

did he need those against norton? well chin, heart and smarts, of course, but not in the same amount needed to beat big george.
and his handspeed was neutralized by norton tactic and defense

At least somebody was reading what I posted.

[The Troll]

Foreman would win on points in the rematch no question. In a nice air conditoned lobby in good ole Las Vegas Foreman would not be outsmarted a 2nd time and bring the right game plan. Clay knew that, that is why he ducked Foreman from 1974 until his retirement. The so called greatest ever, was not confident about himself to give Foreman a rematch. duck duck goose.

[wmute]

Foreman would win on points in the rematch no question. In a nice air conditoned lobby in good ole Las Vegas Foreman would not be outsmarted a 2nd time and bring the right game plan. Clay knew that, that is why he ducked Foreman from 1974 until his retirement. The so called greatest ever, was not confident about himself to give Foreman a rematch. duck duck goose.

big surprise... you are changing subject... again

ok

tell us how would the rematch look like round by round (assuming ali is in pre thrilla in manila shape