How high do you rank Larry Holmes in your all time rankings

[QueensburyRules]

See!

But accomplishment is about winning championships and no one comes close not even Joe Cool with a mere (actually amazing) four.

Hell Bart Starr had five in seven years.

But I agree with both of you, if I had a weak team I would want Montana or Rodgers to help compensate, not Brady.

IDK championships, resume, KOs, longevity, jab, footwork, right hand, era . . . Ahhhh! It goes on and on . . . how can we make any P4P list of value?

- - Starr didn't win 5 superbowls.

No matter, Montana first came to my attention vs undefeated Earl Campbell UT in the Cotton Bowl that used to be a lot bigger in the day. That #1 Texas team had a weak Qback and offense absent Earl, but a good defense overall, and Joe whooped em.

>>>>1979 the best University of Houston team ever put on the field undefeated in that year of the Ice Cotton Bowl and Joe sick as a dog whooped em. I'd have said regardless of regular season stats, Joe was the best Qback I'd ever seen, a natural leader and play caller in spite of being of every day Joe average size and strength. He was additionally endowed with all around athleticism that gets lost in the banal media gerrymandering of the term. And then the MF turned pro!!!

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Starr didn't win 5 superbowls.

No matter, Montana first came to my attention vs undefeated Earl Campbell UT in the Cotton Bowl that used to be a lot bigger in the day. That #1 Texas team had a weak Qback and offense absent Earl, but a good defense overall, and Joe whooped em.

>>>>1979 the best University of Houston team ever put on the field undefeated in that year of the Ice Cotton Bowl and Joe sick as a dog whooped em. I'd have said regardless of regular season stats, Joe was the best Qback I'd ever seen, a natural leader and play caller in spite of being of every day Joe average size and strength. He was additionally endowed with all around athleticism that gets lost in the banal media gerrymandering of the term. And then the MF turned pro!!!

How absurd of you, what grade U in?

Green Bay Packers, '65, '66, '67, only three-peat in NFL history.

You think the 1965 Buffalo Bill's were actual competition for the '65 Packers?

A silly technicality, what next Jimmy Ellis HW Champion of the World?

[QueensburyRules]

How absurd of you, what grade U in?

Green Bay Packers, '65, '66, '67, only three-peat in NFL history.

You think the 1965 Buffalo Bill's were actual competition for the '65 Packers?

A silly technicality, what next Jimmy Ellis HW Champion of the World?

- - Ali said so, so Yesssss!.

Houston Oilers 1960-61 won first two AFL titles probably whoop 2/3rds of the NFL given they were partially stocked with NFL vets, most notably George Blanda who was the most versatile Qback in history who set the all time NFL points record that has since prob been broken. Billy Cannon was the Rams #1 pick didn't last long, but was a star for a few short years before his demons settled in.

Dallas Texans/Hank Stram supplanted Houston to give Dallas their first championship would've embarrassed those early Cowboys. Their Braintrust moved them to KC as the Chiefs where they gave GB all they could handle in the first SuperBowl until some key injuries in the 2nd half knocked them out.

Side note is those Oilers featured rookie offensive guard Hogan Wharton from my ol'man's alma mater who later joined his company and was a regular visitor at our home. He had gotten too "big" to play football and had to sit on the love seat as no other chairs could accommodate him. He also 'rassled on tour post football and 'rassled OddJob several times in those salad days before his big Goldfinger break.


Odd-job-%E2%80%9CGoldfinger%E2%80%9D-1964-1024x631_f_improf_900x555.jpg

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Ali said so, so Yesssss!.

Houston Oilers 1960-61 won first two AFL titles probably whoop 2/3rds of the NFL given they were partially stocked with NFL vets, most notably George Blanda who was the most versatile Qback in history who set the all time NFL points record that has since prob been broken. Billy Cannon was the Rams #1 pick didn't last long, but was a star for a few short years before his demons settled in.

Dallas Texans/Hank Stram supplanted Houston to give Dallas their first championship would've embarrassed those early Cowboys. Their Braintrust moved them to KC as the Chiefs where they gave GB all they could handle in the first SuperBowl until some key injuries in the 2nd half knocked them out.

Side note is those Oilers featured rookie offensive guard Hogan Wharton from my ol'man's alma mater who later joined his company and was a regular visitor at our home. He had gotten too "big" to play football and had to sit on the love seat as no other chairs could accommodate him. He also 'rassled on tour post football and 'rassled OddJob several times in those salad days before his big Goldfinger break.


Odd-job-%E2%80%9CGoldfinger%E2%80%9D-1964-1024x631_f_improf_900x555.jpg

Rewriting history!

Second shelf teams can often keep it close for the first half but can't keep it up to the final gun.

Only injury of note was 'the hammer' and he was having a nothing day.

When you win the Super Bowl you are the NFL Champion. What were the Packers in 1965 called: the NFL Champions. It's really that simple unless you want to make it complicated. '61, '62, '65, '66, '67. Five in seven years.

Shall we qualify Joe Cool or Bradshaw's titles because the XFL was around, or deny the Radiers their due because the USFL (almost) existed?

Na! You are not respecting the extraordinary Packer achievement of the1960s.

P.S. The 'one loss' Oakland Radiers should have given the '67 Packers (who were running on fumes) a better game in SB II; IMO the Raiders got overwhelmed by the moment. The '66 Chiefs on the other hand NEVER beat the '66 Packers.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Ali said so, so Yesssss!.

Houston Oilers 1960-61 won first two AFL titles probably whoop 2/3rds of the NFL given they were partially stocked with NFL vets, most notably George Blanda who was the most versatile Qback in history who set the all time NFL points record that has since prob been broken. Billy Cannon was the Rams #1 pick didn't last long, but was a star for a few short years before his demons settled in.

Dallas Texans/Hank Stram supplanted Houston to give Dallas their first championship would've embarrassed those early Cowboys. Their Braintrust moved them to KC as the Chiefs where they gave GB all they could handle in the first SuperBowl until some key injuries in the 2nd half knocked them out.

Side note is those Oilers featured rookie offensive guard Hogan Wharton from my ol'man's alma mater who later joined his company and was a regular visitor at our home. He had gotten too "big" to play football and had to sit on the love seat as no other chairs could accommodate him. He also 'rassled on tour post football and 'rassled OddJob several times in those salad days before his big Goldfinger break.


Odd-job-%E2%80%9CGoldfinger%E2%80%9D-1964-1024x631_f_improf_900x555.jpg

Didn't know Odd Job wrestled. Makes sense.

[QueensburyRules]

Rewriting history!

Second shelf teams can often keep it close for the first half but can't keep it up to the final gun.

Only injury of note was 'the hammer' and he was having a nothing day.

When you win the Super Bowl you are the NFL Champion. What were the Packers in 1965 called: the NFL Champions. It's really that simple unless you want to make it complicated. '61, '62, '65, '66, '67. Five in seven years.

Shall we qualify Joe Cool or Bradshaw's titles because the XFL was around, or deny the Radiers their due because the USFL (almost) existed?

Na! You are not respecting the extraordinary Packer achievement of the1960s.

P.S. The 'one loss' Oakland Radiers should have given the '67 Packers (who were running on fumes) a better game in SB II; IMO the Raiders got overwhelmed by the moment. The '66 Chiefs on the other hand NEVER beat the '66 Packers.

- - Then we have co-NFL champs in 60-61 with the Oilers when the AFL was incorporated into the NFL and in 62-66.

Herschel Walker turned pro age 19 with USFL(Rump NJ Generals) straight from winning the Collegiate title with him being the only offense for his Georgia team. He replicated that with the Gens who stole innumerable NFL players much like the AFL. He's clearly the best halfback in history with his total versatility, but since Rump later talked the USFL into challenging the New Fledgling NFL one to one, the NFL never incorporated USFL teams, players, and stats like they did AFL as they drove the poor business model USFL out of business.

Herschel ain't even in the HOF, but he's got an undefeated MMA record and the front runner in the Georgia Senate race.

Trivia- Who is the only player Tom Landry ever excused from Cowboy preseason, post season and season physical training?

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Then we have co-NFL champs in 60-61 with the Oilers when the AFL was incorporated into the NFL and in 62-66.

Herschel Walker turned pro age 19 with USFL(Rump NJ Generals) straight from winning the Collegiate title with him being the only offense for his Georgia team. He replicated that with the Gens who stole innumerable NFL players much like the AFL. He's clearly the best halfback in history with his total versatility, but since Rump later talked the USFL into challenging the New Fledgling NFL one to one, the NFL never incorporated USFL teams, players, and stats like they did AFL as they drove the poor business model USFL out of business. ******

Herschel ain't even in the HOF, but he's got an undefeated MMA record and the front runner in the Georgia Senate race.

Trivia- Who is the only player Tom Landry ever excused from Cowboy preseason, post season and season physical training?

I can not understand the first sentence. Merger did not take place until 1970. They stopped the 'draft war' in 1966 with the intent of merger.

Can't have co-NFL champs, there was only one NFL. AL Davis will haunt you if he hears you call his 1960s AFL co-NFL.

Answer: Leamon Hall of Army. (Think about it before you tell me I'm wrong. The kid was pretty good, holds the passing record for Army; but the magic didn't work twice.)

****** I get the point you're making . . . But one caveat, the jury (anti-trust lawsuit) concluded that the NFL in collusion with TV did indeed run the USFL out of business, but because the league was going to fail all on its own anyway the economic award was 1$. Literally one dollar.

[QueensburyRules]

I can not understand the first sentence. Merger did not take place until 1970. They stopped the 'draft war' in 1966 with the intent of merger.

Can't have co-NFL champs, there was only one NFL. AL Davis will haunt you if he hears you call his 1960s AFL co-NFL.

Answer: Leamon Hall of Army. (Think about it before you tell me I'm wrong. The kid was pretty good, holds the passing record for Army; but the magic didn't work twice.)

****** I get the point you're making . . . But one caveat, the jury (anti-trust lawsuit) concluded that the NFL in collusion with TV did indeed run the USFL out of business, but because the league was going to fail all on its own anyway the economic award was 1$. Literally one dollar.

- - Merged AFL/NFL stats and championships.

Answer: Herschel Walker. His personal conditioning regime was far more stringent than Landry's innovative Nautilus machines and body fat water immersion weighins.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Merged AFL/NFL stats and championships.

Answer: Herschel Walker. His personal conditioning regime was far more stringent than Landry's innovative Nautilus machines and body fat water immersion weighins.

Oh! Interesting.

Funny how Landry has been labeled both a petty tyrant and an imaginative innovator. Usually one isn't the other.

THE TRIVIA - Ah ! thought you were referring to the adjustments they made on behalf of Staubach and his Naval commitment.

The Cowboys (Landry) should be noted for having such a forward looking organization that they could adjust/wait out Staubach's four year commitment.

He tired it again with an Army QB (Leamon Hall) in the late 70s but he never panned out.

[QueensburyRules]

Oh! Interesting.

Funny how Landry has been labeled both a petty tyrant and an imaginative innovator. Usually one isn't the other.

THE TRIVIA - Ah ! thought you were referring to the adjustments they made on behalf of Staubach and his Naval commitment.

The Cowboys (Landry) should be noted for having such a forward looking organization that they could adjust/wait out Staubach's four year commitment.

He tired it again with an Army QB (Leamon Hall) in the late 70s but he never panned out.

- - Landry the most innovative coach in history came from the legendary NY Giant's team both as player and coach for starters. He was never petty or a tyrant, but he did run a strict camp that included off season conditioning programs that made football more a full time lucrative job in a storied attraction team where all the players were stars by dint of being Cowboys.

He allowed free spirits like Hollywood Henderson and Don Meredith among others a free reign as long as they fulfilled Cowboy job duties.

Big Cowboy fan in the day reading daily baseball, boxing, and football reports, and I never heard of this Hall, but a search of his odd name reveals some oddities not the least of which he never played a down of NFL football, but apparently some USFL snaps, and two Leamon Halls with both serving in the Army.

https://www.marshallandmarshallfd.co...ry/Leamon-Hall https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...on-hall-1.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-e4c3e4722de1/

https://www.nytimes.com/1977/09/18/a...the-times.html

https://www.usflsite.com/players/Leamon_Hall/p-halllea001

I think Lar prob ranks over both of them if we want to talk about Lar's weak prime record.