Bud Crawford And His Current Standing?

[Bronson66]

I've been having a debate with another poster elsewhere,regarding where Crawford currently stands,he says he is already an ATG ,and a lock for the 1st time ballot in the HOF.
The HOF means little to me ,its a popularity contest imo,but in your opinion, is Crawford already an ATG?
If you think he is ,what wins of his have decided you of that?

[DeeMoney]

I get your distaste for the HOF, but I think it carries some weight here as it is at least more of a universally established term than ATG. We have all these discussions about ATG, but nobody seems to set a demarcation line for where ATG stands (top 25 all time, top 100)? Do that first, and I think you have more coherent discussion.

Additionally, I know you and a few others here differ from me on this, but I think you can judge a fighter by watching his fights and evaluating him as such. This differs from those who just look at a fighters resume and cite that without looking at the fight itself. For your discussion are we just looking at the resume, or does skill and level of dominance applied within fights matter as well as the resume?

[Bronson66]

Hopefully both.

[DeeMoney]

Hopefully both.

Then the real trick is where do we draw the "All Time" line at, and that seems to be the hardest thing to pin down. Some people are tight fisted with their all time praise, others very loose with it. You could have two people rank everyone the exact same, but not agree because they just define All Time as being different.

Personally I rank Crawford pretty high all time, but its tricky because he didn't get a chance to show all he could at WW (regardless of whose fault it was). But when he did show, he looked tremendous.

[SouthpawRight]

I get your distaste for the HOF, but I think it carries some weight here as it is at least more of a universally established term than ATG. We have all these discussions about ATG, but nobody seems to set a demarcation line for where ATG stands (top 25 all time, top 100)? Do that first, and I think you have more coherent discussion.

Additionally, I know you and a few others here differ from me on this, but I think you can judge a fighter by watching his fights and evaluating him as such. This differs from those who just look at a fighters resume and cite that without looking at the fight itself. For your discussion are we just looking at the resume, or does skill and level of dominance applied within fights matter as well as the resume?

top 25 for all time is too tight

top 25 would exclude all of the currently active greats Bivol Usyk TBud Naoya Saul Artur

[Haka]

What holds up besides a past it Porter and car wrecked Spence ? Ancient Gamboa ? If he is in the ATG list can you think of 3 names above or below it to make an estimate ?

[SouthpawRight]

What holds up besides a past it Porter and car wrecked Spence ? Ancient Gamboa ? If he is in the ATG list can you think of 3 names above or below it to make an estimate ?

TBud becomes this generation’s greatest if he clearly beats Saul

[MalevolentBite]

Definitely a first ballot Hall of famer and ATG however in boxing the bar is set pretty low for both categories. So neither of them really hold weight. If you want to, you can make the same argument for many current boxers. Fury, AJ, Beterbiev, Bivol, BAM, Stevenson, Haney, shoot you can make a debate about Charlo at 154 being a first ballot and ATG. There's no consensus measuring stick.

If we go off who you actually fought when you fought them then most of these current fighters will wouldnt make the hall of fame. Shoot Klitschkos didn't beat any really prime Elite heavyweights neither did Tyson.

Crawford best win is Spence whos best win was a broken down kell brook, porter who was beaten by brook and lost to Thurman and Danny Garcia who also lost to Thurman. Spence never faced Thurman. Crawford never faced Thurman. Thurman only lost to Pacquiao but people dont give Keith credit.

[SouthpawRight]

Definitely a first ballot Hall of famer and ATG however in boxing the bar is set pretty low for both categories. So neither of them really hold weight. If you want to, you can make the same argument for many current boxers. Fury, AJ, Beterbiev, Bivol, BAM, Stevenson, Haney, shoot you can make a debate about Charlo at 154 being a first ballot and ATG. There's no consensus measuring stick.

If we go off who you actually fought when you fought them then most of these current fighters will wouldnt make the hall of fame. Shoot Klitschkos didn't beat any really prime Elite heavyweights neither did Tyson.

Crawford best win is Spence whos best win was a broken down kell brook, porter who was beaten by brook and lost to Thurman and Danny Garcia who also lost to Thurman. Spence never faced Thurman. Crawford never faced Thurman. Thurman only lost to Pacquiao but people dont give Keith credit.

who you beat how you beat them and when did you beat them

Top Soviet Bivol passes these tests he beat fellow all time greats Prime Saul wide AND End Of Prime Artur clearly

Bivol is the only active p4p with wins over multiple all times

many p4p today Naoya Usyk have yet to face a single all time

TBud will be doing his first all time opponent soon in Sept

Floyd is 11 all time because he beat 4 out of 5 of his great opponents easily Juan Shane Saul manny

plus wide wins over 4 hall of famers Genaro Diego Ricky Miguel

when Floyd faced the very best opponents of which he fought 9 only 1 of them Oscar managed to take more than 3 rounds

[MalevolentBite]

who you beat how you beat them and when did you beat them

Top Soviet Bivol passes these tests he beat fellow all time greats Prime Saul wide AND End Of Prime Artur clearly

Bivol is the only active p4p with wins over multiple all times

many p4p today Naoya Usyk have yet to face a single all time

TBud will be doing his first all time opponent soon in Sept

Floyd is 11 all time because he beat 4 out of 5 of his great opponents easily Juan Shane Saul manny

plus wide wins over 4 hall of famers Genaro Diego Ricky Miguel

when Floyd faced the very best opponents of which he fought 9 only 1 of them Oscar managed to take more than 3 rounds

I agree.