Who actually beats Johnson at his absolute prime?

[Willie Pep 229]

From listening to you guys I have been able to discern that . . .

1. Johnson ducked out of a fight with Langford in London. One he committed to before he became champion.

I would argue, that once Champion a champion has the right to renegotiate any pre-title deal he made. As I always say, this isn't the NBA, it's prize fighting. I would have advised JJ to refuse that fight as well. Time for the big-big money now.

2. The McIntosh deal I find suspect (right now).

I am not sure if there was a deal in place or just a public offer.

JJ tried to flee to London (via Canada) but the US federal government pressured London to expel Johnson. Johnson then fled to France, where the French did what the French do so well, they thumped their nose at the USA and embraced JJ. (See Iraq War for example.)

I wonder if JJ could have even gone to Australia to fight. My guess (yes, just conjecture) the Aussies would have bowed to London's wishes and expelled JJ as well.

1. I would like to see proof that JJ actually signed with McIntosh.

2. Whether McIntosh actually pulled the fights on his own or if he was told there would be no fights.

[Dr Z]

You've missed the point entirely. There are different stages of sparring and fight camp. For instance the week before my last fight i was getting hammered by guys the normally couldn't touch me. 6 weeks before that I was getting hammered by guys in better shape than me. Than right before the fight everything came together. The point is, you don't know what was going on in Johnsons camp, what point he was at or what shape he was in. It's sparring, that's it. To take it as more than that is egregious.

Well, Johsnon was in his absolute prime at 30 years old when this happened fresh off his best filmed performance over Burns. Furthermore GB Smith was a novice, with maybe 0 pro fights under his belt. So....

It was not sparing but an exhibition match with a crowd of people.

Have you not seen the review I posted here twice? I will let that report do the talking.

Johnson was down and saw stars and his manager had to save him.

[GhostofDempsey]

Nope I'm perfectly calm and nothing in the12 years old post of mine you posted contradicts anything I said.

You can post as many of my old posts as you like,Spend your day doing so, that's absolutely fine.
No you said Johnson was lucky to get a draw.That is a lie of your own invention.

What you will not do is post a primary source that states Johnson was lucky to get a draw with Johnson.

Nor one that says McVey was competitive with Johnson.
You and the cretin will make a great tag team .
You are both liars and both haters.Sad

Nah, you’re raging. You thought it was a good idea to poke the bear after your fifth pint and 3rd shot of whiskey. What kind of grown man sits in a pub on a Thursday night and decides to argue with a total stranger across the pond on an Internet forum?

You got caught slipping’, now you’re flailing. I don’t need a source that says he was lucky to get a draw, it’s obvious from the judges, ref, his condition at the end of the fight and just about every credible source that described his exhaustion at the end of ten rounds. It was a cherry pick gone wrong and you’re unable to cope right now. He accepted far less than $5k for Battling Jim while turning down $15- $20k for Jeannette.

I found quite a few of your posts which expose your hypocrisy, lies and double standards. I’ll expose you in due time, death by a thousand cuts. Have a good cry.

[Bronson66]

From listening to you guys I have been able to discern that . . .

1. Johnson ducked out of a fight with Langford in London. One he committed to before he became champion.

I would argue, that once Champion a champion has the right to renegotiate any pre-title deal he made. As I always say, this isn't the NBA, it's prize fighting. I would have advised JJ to refuse that fight as well. Time for the big-big money now.

2. The McIntosh deal I find suspect (right now).

I am not sure if there was a deal in place or just a public offer.

JJ tried to flee to London (via Canada) but the US federal government pressured London to expel Johnson. Johnson then fled to France, where the French did what the French do so well, they thumped their nose at the USA and embraced JJ. (See Iraq War for example.)

I wonder if JJ could have even gone to Australia to fight. My guess (yes, just conjecture) the Aussies would have bowed to London's wishes and expelled JJ as well.

1. I would like to see proof that JJ actually signed with McIntosh.

2. Whether McIntosh actually pulled the fights on his own or if he was told there would be no fights.

Johnson definitely reneged on his contract to fight Langford,which he signed whilst still a challenger.

October 12th 1912 Johnson announced he had agreed defend against Langford and McVey in Sydney for McIntosh.

Johnson to get $55,000,plus $5000 training expenses plus 5 round trip tickets.

This would satisfy his demands for $30,000 a title defence.

A$10,000 bond was to be posted by all parties .

This was printed in the Freeman October19th 1912 and The Missouilian October 13th.

On October 18th Johnson was arrested and charged with abduction and released on $800 bail. Two government agents began to put together a case against Johnson under the Mann Act..

As a result of all the unfavourable publicity McIntosh announced he would not be promoting the fights.
I suppose it boils down to whether you think Johnson was sincere in his actions,personally, since his purse demands of $30,000 a defence were met and he had gone as far as to agree to post a $10,000 bond I think they were,because he would have no way of knowing the promoter was going to call off the fights,and his good faith money would then have been forfeit.It has been established by Pollack the initiative to cancel the fights came from the promoter.

[Bronson66]

Nah, you’re raging. You thought it was a good idea to poke the bear after your fifth pint and 3rd shot of whiskey. What kind of grown man sits in a pub on a Thursday night and decides to argue with a total stranger across the pond on an Internet forum?

You got caught slipping’, now you’re flailing. I don’t need a source that says he was lucky to get a draw, it’s obvious from the judges, ref, his condition at the end of the fight and just about every credible source that described his exhaustion at the end of ten rounds. It was a cherry pick gone wrong and you’re unable to cope right now. He accepted far less than $5k for Battling Jim while turning down $15- $20k for Jeannette.

I found quite a few of your posts which expose your hypocrisy, lies and double standards. I’ll expose you in due time, death by a thousand cuts. Have a good cry.

What kind of man sits in a pub with friends and listens to a fine singer?

This kind of a man!

I wasn't on the internet last night you moron! I was in the pub from 8pm till11.20pm got a taxi home and went straight to bed!

You don't need a source to prove Johnson was lucky to get a draw?

Would that be because you are unable to find one?lol


What were you doing last night? Trawling through my12 years old posts on another Forum?lol

How sad are you!
Please do post as many of my posts from ESB as you like ,I welcome it !
I'll find it much more entertaining than reading your hate filled sewage !


Fella, you've lost the plot big time !!!! HILAAAARIOUS!

[Bronson66]

Well, Johsnon was in his absolute prime at 30 years old when this happened fresh off his best filmed performance over Burns. Furthermore GB Smith was a novice, with maybe 0 pro fights under his belt. So....

It was not sparing but an exhibition match with a crowd of people.

Have you not seen the review I posted here twice? I will let that report do the talking.

Johnson was down and saw stars and his manager had to save him.

Oh how we have missed the spelling howlers!

You asked for a link concerning Vitali being
dropped by two sparring partners I provided 3

"please. Now comes the point where you flat line. Besides what one fight clims is not proof."

Press on.
Revealed: Vitali Klitschko Knocked Down Twice


Witness: Vitali Really WAS Dropped in Sparring - Boxing Forum

Colonel_Reb

Hall of Famer

Joined Jan 9, 2005 Messages 13,987 Location The Deep South

• Apr 7, 2007

• #5

I just checked the article out and itwas Vitali, not Wlad, it wasn't a knockout, just a knock down,and it happened in 2005, not last week. Read it for yourself. I am glad I did, because now I'm not confused any more.



NEW YORK -- Heavyweight prospects Travis Walker and Raphael Butler's stock increased this week when news broke about how both fighters knocked down Vitali Klitschko in separate sparring sessions.

"I was there the whole time, and I saw it all," said ****ie Wood, who trains both Walker and Diego Corrales. "[Klitschko] was throwing a jab and he pulled back and was coming forward. Butler hit him with a right hand and Klitschko went down and his knee twisted underneath him. That was the last day of sparring. It was on a Friday, one week before the fight against Hasim Rahman on Nov. 12, 2005."Edited by: Colonel_Reb.


Want to make a big deal about it and claim they were tkos in exhibition matches as you have about Johnson?
No,I thought not!


Do you know Mendozy, I think we have finally found someone who hates Johnson more than you!

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson definitely reneged on his contract to fight Langford,which he signed whilst still a challenger.

October 12th 1912 Johnson announced he had agreed defend against Langford and McVey in Sydney for McIntosh.

Johnson to get $55,000,plus $5000 training expenses plus 5 round trip tickets.

This would satisfy his demands for $30,000 a title defence.

A$10,000 bond was to be posted by all parties .

This was printed in the Freeman October19th 1912 and The Missouilian October 13th.

On October 18th Johnson was arrested and charged with abduction and released on $800 bail. Two government agents began to put together a case against Johnson under the Mann Act..

As a result of all the unfavourable publicity McIntosh announced he would not be promoting the fights.
I suppose it boils down to whether you think Johnson was sincere in his actions,personally, since his purse demands of $30,000 a defence were met and he had gone as far as to agree to post a $10,000 bond I think they were,because he would have no way of knowing the promoter was going to call off the fights,and his good faith money would then have been forfeit.It has been established by Pollack the initiative to cancel the fights came from the promoter.

OK - but we are still in conjecture land. 'Pollack established' is a vague statement.

I am not challenging JJ's sincerity I am wondering if Australia, not McIntosh, canceled the fights. McIntosh isn't going to tell the press the truth.

Didn't he follow Johnson to France? I know Jack Curley promoted Johnson-Johnson fight, but I think Hugh kept after JJ still trying to make a fight.

Anyway, the way I understand it, it was Hugh McIntosh who gave Al Tearney the 10K forfeit money to hold, not Johnson.

Johnson didn't trust McIntosh, not the other way around. I don't believe Johnson posted any forfeit monies.

[Bronson66]

OK - but we are still in conjecture land. 'Pollack established' is a vague statement.

I am not challenging JJ's sincerity I am wondering if Australia, not McIntosh, canceled the fights. McIntosh isn't going to tell the press the truth.

Didn't he follow Johnson to France? I know Jack Curley promoted Johnson-Johnson fight, but I think Hugh kept after JJ still trying to make a fight.

Anyway, the way I understand it, it was Hugh McIntosh who gave Al Tearney the 10K forfeit money to hold, not Johnson.

Johnson didn't trust McIntosh, not the other way around. I don't believe Johnson posted any forfeit monies.

I suppose we will never know if Government pressure was brought to bear on McIntosh,rather similar to the Dempsey v Wills saga.

[travestyny]

OK - but we are still in conjecture land. 'Pollack established' is a vague statement.

I am not challenging JJ's sincerity I am wondering if Australia, not McIntosh, canceled the fights. McIntosh isn't going to tell the press the truth.

Didn't he follow Johnson to France? I know Jack Curley promoted Johnson-Johnson fight, but I think Hugh kept after JJ still trying to make a fight.

Anyway, the way I understand it, it was Hugh McIntosh who gave Al Tearney the 10K forfeit money to hold, not Johnson.

Johnson didn't trust McIntosh, not the other way around. I don't believe Johnson posted any forfeit monies.

McIntosh didn't give the forfeit yet. Johnson signed with McIntosh but the forfeit money was supposed to go to a bank in Chicago, and then apparently to a Newspaper in Sydney. Johnson stated he wanted the money to go to Tearney whom he trusted and who had handled forfeits for him in the past, and McIntosh began to balk at that. Said he would let Tearney choose the bank, but it would be unfair for him to leave such a large amount of money to a man he doesn't know. They finally settled it and McIntosh was supposed to leave the money with Tearney, but then announced he was calling off the entire thing due to Johnson's legal woes.

[GhostofDempsey]

What kind of man sits in a pub with friends and listens to a fine singer?

This kind of a man!

I wasn't on the internet last night you moron! I was in the pub from 8pm till11.20pm got a taxi home and went straight to bed!

You don't need a source to prove Johnson was lucky to get a draw?

Would that be because you are unable to find one?lol


What were you doing last night? Trawling through my12 years old posts on another Forum?lol

How sad are you!
Please do post as many of my posts from ESB as you like ,I welcome it !
I'll find it much more entertaining than reading your hate filled sewage !


Fella, you've lost the plot big time !!!! HILAAAARIOUS!

Moron? I see someone is still raging and resorting to insults.

Where is your source that Johnson struggled with Battling Jim as you said in your own words?

Where is the Gunboat Smith video you keep referencing without posting?

You are fuming because I outed your double standards. The plot isn’t lost, you’re just squirming and embarrassed. Try not to get a tear in your beer.