The great HW men who wouldn't quit.

[Dr Z]

Bronson66


That is the only newspaper source Ward quotes.
I have the book.

Likewise Roberts cites no sources for his statements,I know this because I also have his book.

Then you won't go into Ward's detailed info on Johnson quitting. I believe he referred to it as a dog form of quitting and was referencing someone at the fight.

I challenge you to post Ward's entire passage of the fight word for word.

I bet you won't because you are a lying freemason ( who worships you know who ), a fan of the wife beating, lawbreaker man named John Johnson

Again I post occasionally on ESB. You have been banned there quite a few times.

Assde from this request I have little use for you.

[Bronson66]

Then you won't go into Ward's detailed info on Johnson quitting. I believe he referred to it as a dog form of quitting and was referencing someone at the fight.

I challenge you to post Ward's entire passage of the fight word for word.

I bet you won't because you are a lying freemason ( who worships you know who ), a fan of the wife beating, lawbreaker man named John Johnson

Again I post occasionally on ESB. You have been banned there quite a few times.

Assde from this request I have little use for you.

I've just posted Ward's quotes,I have the book! Ward as I have now said 5 times quotes only one source,The Chicago Tribune and it does not mention Johnson quitting.

You do not post on ESB you are banned for life.

I posted on there yesterday I am a VIP Member ie I do not have to put up with adverts.

Back on this Freemason obsession?

What does Freemasonry have to do with this or any other boxing thread?

You have several times stated Freemasons are,*****philes,and devil worshippers.

You aren't right in the head,and it isn't a secret!LOL

[JAB5239]

I know some of these guys, and they are seasoned boxing historians unlike McGrian who you claimed was an excellent boxing historian.


Pollack is an IBRO brethren. Sure they like him. He is also a fan boy of Jonhson's.


I posted three sources. Ward, Roberts and AI on Johnson quitting ( his first of a few quit jobs ). vs. Haynes.


When you get the Book Unforgivable Blackness, you will learn more.


Until then understand that Johnson does not fit this thread's title.

What i understand is that you cannot give a primary source from either book. I also understand you don't know any of those guys besides the occasion run in on a boxing website.

Are you trying to tell me one of the most consummate historians alive would share Pollacks stuff because he likes him? That is almost laughable that you would even suggest that.

What's really telling right now is Roberts hasn't gotten back to me about his sources. I wonder why?

You can say what you want about Pollack being a fanboy, but the fact is he's a meticulous researcher and this has been proven. Most notably on this particular topic which he took you to school on over at ESB.

[Bronson66]

What i understand is that you cannot give a primary source from either book. I also understand you don't know any of those guys besides the occasion run in on a boxing website.

Are you trying to tell me one of the most consummate historians alive would share Pollacks stuff because he likes him? That is almost laughable that you would even suggest that.

What's really telling right now is Roberts hasn't gotten back to me about his sources. I wonder why?

You can say what you want about Pollack being a fanboy, but the fact is he's a meticulous researcher and this has been proven. Most notably on this particular topic which he took you to school on over at ESB.

I also E Mailed both Roberts and Ward 2 days ago, asking for their sources on this subject , and asking in the,light of Pollack's book quoting 4 sources,do they think Johnson quit? I have had no reply so far.

[JAB5239]

I also E Mailed both Roberts and Ward 2 days ago, asking for their sources on this subject , and asking in the,light of Pollack's book quoting 4 sources,do they think Johnson quit? I have had no reply so far.

I'm not calling either man a liar. Maybe they were misguided, I don't know. But when writing a biography is it not common practice to reveal the sources you've used to remain transparent? I don't know what the guidelines to journalistic integrity. I would hope one of us hears back to clear the air.

[Bronson66]

I'm not calling either man a liar. Maybe they were misguided, I don't know. But when writing a biography is it not common practice to reveal the sources you've used to remain transparent? I don't know what the guidelines to journalistic integrity. I would hope one of us hears back to clear the air.

I'm not calling them liars either,just authors who did not do the necessary research to reach definitive conclusions.
Something that cannot be said about Pollack!

[Dr Z]

What i understand is that you cannot give a primary source from either book. I also understand you don't know any of those guys besides the occasion run in on a boxing website.

Are you trying to tell me one of the most consummate historians alive would share Pollacks stuff because he likes him? That is almost laughable that you would even suggest that.

What's really telling right now is Roberts hasn't gotten back to me about his sources. I wonder why?

You can say what you want about Pollack being a fanboy, but the fact is he's a meticulous researcher and this has been proven. Most notably on this particular topic which he took you to school on over at ESB.

I do not have all of their primary sources, nor do you. I take them at thier word that Jonshon quit. Do you doubt them both? Well, do you?

I do know and converse with high level IBRO people. Cucco, Cox, Callis ( who may be the best boxing historian living in my opinion ) to name a few. Who the heck do you know? Names please cowboy. None of these guys I know post on the web anymore as they are too many ignorant types who love to troll.

But this thread is not about who I know. Most boxing historians are not familiar with one 1899 fight of Johnson's, which you asked them about.

Johsnon quit. End of. So says Ward, Roberts, and AI. 3 sources There is more...

The guys you mention besides the fanboy are not familiar with the fight. Cox is ( a high level IBRO gut ) and he writes Johnson QUIT! So that's 4.


https://coxscorner.tripod.com/Johnson_Not_As_Great.html

NO Charge. ^^ This link deserves its own post. ^^


Again I seldom post at EBS, but I do post every now and then. That is the end of that. By the way, I communicated with Pollack 10+ years ago and asked him how he came to that conclusion with contradicting sources, to which I got no answer. Big surprise.

[Dr Z]

I've just posted Ward's quotes,I have the book! Ward as I have now said 5 times quotes only one source,The Chicago Tribune and it does not mention Johnson quitting.

You do not post on ESB you are banned for life.

I posted on there yesterday I am a VIP Member ie I do not have to put up with adverts.

Back on this Freemason obsession?

What does Freemasonry have to do with this or any other boxing thread?

You have several times stated Freemasons are,*****philes,and devil worshippers.

You aren't right in the head,and it isn't a secret!LOL

You were challaged to quote in full context Ward's detailing how Johnson quit . I think we know you don't want to type that out! Prove me wrong and list it word for word. You won't, but it is mildly fun to ask.As usual you will silk away.


Johsnon was a freemason, a law breaker, a wife beater and a POS human being like yourself. Perhaps you treat women badly, but I do not care to know you find out. You did mention you give money to a ********* org , and like to hunt rabbits and shoot their defenseless head off. You are really a de****able person, Tony Mcvey . A.K.A. Tonto 62, Ivich. Bronson and all the rest of you cover names that you have used in the past because you have been Banned, .

But you asked me why and I metioned Johnson's feemasonry, and being a pimp, a wife beater and law breaker. Your kind of guy, right? This are reasons why you like him.

[Bronson66]

You were challaged to quote in full context Ward's detailing how Johnson quit . I think we know you don't want to type that out! Prove me wrong and list it word for word. You won't, but it is mildly fun to ask.As usual you will silk away.


Johsnon was a freemason, a law breaker, a wife beater and a POS human being like yourself. Perhaps you treat women badly, but I do not care to know you find out. You did mention you give money to a ********* org , and like to hunt rabbits and shoot their defenseless head off. You are really a de****able person, Tony Mcvey . A.K.A. Tonto 62, Ivich. Bronson and all the rest of you cover names that you have used in the past because you have been Banned, .

But you asked me why and I shoot their defenseless head off. and being a pimp, a wife beater and law breaker. Your kind of guy, right? This are reasons why you like him.

.


I posted Ward's only sourced quote and gave the chapter,it's in, and page it is on,I can't do any more than that.
If you think I left anything out ,post it yourself !

Oh that's right , you can't.Because you don't actually have the book,nor have your read it! lol
challaged, silk,johsnon,feemasonry,I do not care to know to find out, shoot their defenseless head off.johsnon.

Christ you are rabid!


I hope sincerely hope everyone on this forum reads your post,it's a sad, pathetic litany of , phobic, poisonous,obsessional sewage.

For my part I shall re- post it from time to time, so that everyone can see you are not a rational human being.

You need to get some help because you are definitely, to quote Freddie Mercury,"knitting with only one needle"," driving on only three wheels these days,","missing one final screw","one wave short of a shipwreck," "one card short of a full deck,""not quite the shilling" and you ,"think you're a banana tree ."

Thank you for demonstrating in your post,just what a ,ludicrous , illiterate , half wit you are!
I couldn't have done a better job on you myself!LOL

[Bronson66]

I do not have all of their primary sources, nor do you. I take them at thier word that Jonshon quit. Do you doubt them both? Well, do you?

I do know and converse with high level IBRO people. Cucco, Cox, Callis ( who may be the best boxing historian living in my opinion ) to name a few. Who the heck do you know? Names please cowboy. None of these guys I know post on the web anymore as they are too many ignorant types who love to troll.

But this thread is not about who I know. Most boxing historians are not familiar with one 1899 fight of Johnson's, which you asked them about.

Johsnon quit. End of. So says Ward, Roberts, and AI. 3 sources There is more...

The guys you mention besides the fanboy are not familiar with the fight. Cox is ( a high level IBRO gut ) and he writes Johnson QUIT! So that's 4.


https://coxscorner.tripod.com/Johnson_Not_As_Great.html

NO Charge. ^^ This link deserves its own post. ^^


Again I seldom post at EBS, but I do post every now and then. That is the end of that. By the way, I communicated with Pollack 10+ years ago and asked him how he came to that conclusion with contradicting sources, to which I got no answer. Big surprise.

You do not post on ESB,you are permanently banned. Prove me wrong post one of your responses ? It's that easy to do!


MendozaHrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world.banned





"Callis ( who may be the best boxing historian living in my opinion ) "
Above are your words.
Below are Callis' on Jack Johnson.


"Jack Johnson was the first black Heavyweight Champion and, as such, was the hero of his race. His ability in the ring is unquestioned, possibly unequalled. He could do it all, do it well, and do it with ease.
His personal conduct outside the ring (and many times within it) is a different matter. Modesty and humility were no part of this man. He was extremely arrogant and fun-loving and lived life at a reckless, carefree, helter-skelter, “get out of my way”, breakneck speed and manner. His behavior has been described as a public scandal and an irritant to white America. As a result, he was easily the most hated champion.
The effort to dethrone him brought about the search for the “Great White Hope” during his 1908-1915 reign and produced an array of talent that has rarely been matched in any other period. But, even they could not touch Johnson in his prime.
Johnson began a fight extremely cautious, quiet, and on the defensive (unless forced otherwise). As he slowly and surely turned the tide of battle his way, he became more aggressive and destructive in his style of fighting and abusive with his tongue. He preferred to “punish” his man rather than knock him out.
Jack gave the impression of holding back during a fight, never going all out, and never pushing to the limit. “Dumb” Dan Morgan said, “I had the feeling he could demolish an opponent any time he chose.”
Yes, he could get rough if he wanted. He cracked “Fireman” Jim Flynn’s jaw, broke Stanley Ketchel’s teeth off at the gum, and flattened Bob Fitzsimmons and left him glassy eyed and mumbling to himself. He “beat up” Sam Langford, breaking his nose in the process, and left an old Jim Jeffries in a battered heap.

He knocked Marvin Hart out of the ring, and knocked Tommy Burns down twice in the first two rounds, broke his nose, and then taunted him for the next twelve rounds before he got bored and finished him off."

Do you agree with them?