The WBA didn't strip Lennox Lewis

[billeau2]

I don't have the time to type as much as I'd like presently, but I will say it is you who keeps insisting on an adversarial framing between ABC and lineal. The popularity comment was meant to highlight both have merit. As in you are going too far by claiming everything good is the will of the people and everything bad is greedy capitalism. So if i have to speak plainly, I will; both have merit and flaws and none needs more than your own definition of lineal to highlight its inherent flaws. Just like I didn't have to follow that line with anything about the bodies to contrast.

Any who does this black and white one is good and the other bad stuff is doomed to fail. You've posted enough to let us know you're on some crusade inspired by Kaf. Gaslighting is easy. Harder to do if your history is simply names, dates, and events that allow readers to draw their own conclusions rather than telling them what their conclusions should be and supporting that with historical facts. Just saying, when a man is on a crusade it's like pulling teeth to get raw data rather than supported opinion.

Ok so let me clarify that. I do believe we need regulation and should have AN organization to do so... Not twenty. And the rela;tionship is not adverserial so much as each district having a different character in a city.... Each having a power base distinct. The will of the people is consensus thinking. It is useful, not necessarily good, or bad. The lineal funnels it into a constructive power base because it does not ask much: "Who is the best?"

I think you misunderstand the contrast, hopefully the above clarifies? My crusade is simply to not let people forget the power they hold as fans. And see above. I never said to my knowledge that promoters are bad, or greedy, I did say without restraint promoters can get out of line. I never said regulation was bad, I did say, we do not need but so much of it, and the rest would be an issue of enforcement. Every base in boxing has its purpose: Including having at most a few regulating bodies.

I do believe that fighters could do better if they promoted their own fights... I think Jake Paul showed this to be true.... So sue me

[billeau2]

The thing is, I was largely supportive of the "three belt era". Recognising the WBOgus and all the 'regular'/'interim' guff pushed me over the edge. I don't wish to accept it.

I think it is natural to confuse two lines of thought: _____________ is bad unconditionally. _______________is bad when (sighting conditions). Regulating bodies are great. Every state has them naturally. Drug testing is something that most agree is vital... I think this issue is complicated but have no problem with it. Having a few regulating bodies that cross state lines is fine, but not so many! Promoters competing in the unfettered market is fine, but boxers should be aware and perhaps promote through social media, so there is natural competition. Fans weighing in on how the sport is regulated, etc? Not necessary. Fans weighing in on who the champ is and whom he should fight, is good! Forming a tradition based upon this line of champs is also good.

Moderation. The middle way...

[Coverdale]

As far as Lewis specifically goes, let's imagine a hypothetical scenario where instead of Don King, John Ruiz and Evander Holyfield going to court to deprive the champion of his WBA belt Ruiz instead backed himself and waited three months for Lewis after the Grant fight.

So instead of Botha, Lewis beats Ruiz on 15th July 2000 (78 days after the Grant fight).

The rest of Lewis' career proceeds as it did except that instead of taking a year off after the Tyson fight (which was a mistake in my opinion) he deals with the Byrd mandatory before fighting Vitali on the date he did.

He would likely have finished his career with all the sanctioning body belts but would we think any differently of his legacy?

[billeau2]

As far as Lewis specifically goes, let's imagine a hypothetical scenario where instead of Don King, John Ruiz and Evander Holyfield going to court to deprive the champion of his WBA belt Ruiz instead backed himself and waited three months for Lewis after the Grant fight.

So instead of Botha, Lewis beats Ruiz on 15th July 2000 (78 days after the Grant fight).

The rest of Lewis' career proceeds as it did except that instead of taking a year off after the Tyson fight (which was a mistake in my opinion) he deals with the Byrd mandatory before fighting Vitali on the date he did.

He would likely have finished his career with all the sanctioning body belts but would we think any differently of his legacy?

I doubt it...

[Coverdale]

I doubt it...

Agreed, and the problem with counterfactuals is that they don't really work. I think the WBA would have attempted to force Holyfield on Lewis again at some point anyway.

Or the IBF would have. It's quite incredible to think Byrd ended up fighting Holyfield for the vacated belt.

[Willie Pep 229]

Your assertion makes absolutely no sense... Common sense would tell us Lewis had no real interest in Johnson who might be the rare opponent weaker than even Ruiz. And it is desultory to not grant Lewis the right to retire... Vitalie was a sore loser. He had a chance to go for it and did not. Sauce for the goose is good for the Gander Mendoza my dear friend: Holy told Lewis after their fights Lewis should not complain because he should have taken him out when he could... It was stinging but true! The same applies to Vitalie: he had lewis tired and even maybe ready to go... He COULD not capitolize. He knew his time was limited by vag face... He did not consider this and make a special effort to go after Lewis....

Vitalie deserved nothing. Lewis deserved praise for going blls to the wall and finishing the fight on top. Vitalie was already fading, which is one reason they stopped the fight. This BS peddled about Lewis... A man who whether you like, or not, fought all comers. But alas... he duicked Ruiz and Johnson right?

Sometimes Mendoza you put fourth such foolishness... Nothing personal but think!! Think!!!!!

Marciano-Charles II

Marciano knew he only had a round left and the doctor/ref would then take his title.

He left Charles on the floor.

That's what an ATG does. Resume alone doesn't make you great. It's moments of greatness that makes you great.

Vitali didn't go for it and should have known it was going to be stopped.

[billeau2]

Marciano-Charles II

Marciano knew he only had a round left and the doctor/ref would then take his title.

He left Charles on the floor.

That's what an ATG does. Resume alone doesn't make you great. It's moments of greatness that makes you great.

Vitali didn't go for it and should have known it was going to be stopped.

Yup... My feeling exactly. I mean even if he got Koed doing it! You try. I have been in situations fighting where you really did not want to commit... I get it, But you have to find a way! Try! Vitali just did not have it in him.

[JAB5239]

Dr Z always leads up to someone telling what really happened. But I guess when your source material is the label on Queenie's Hooch machine, what can one expect?

I like a good difference of opinion, got not personal against Z. But don't make things up!! If you're wrong admit it. I was wrong on some dates....big deal. As a poster though you need to show me SOMETHING!! We could meet in person and be best friends, but not even my friends can tell ma something I can verify and get me to believe it. Unless it's about the 27 year old redhead down the street. When they tell me she wants me, I believe it!

[JAB5239]

Marciano-Charles II

Marciano knew he only had a round left and the doctor/ref would then take his title.

He left Charles on the floor.

That's what an ATG does. Resume alone doesn't make you great. It's moments of greatness that makes you great.

Vitali didn't go for it and should have known it was going to be stopped.

I love this post. Not to detract from Vits, but because it simplifies and encapsulates what greatness is.

[billeau2]

I like a good difference of opinion, got not personal against Z. But don't make things up!! If you're wrong admit it. I was wrong on some dates....big deal. As a poster though you need to show me SOMETHING!! We could meet in person and be best friends, but not even my friends can tell ma something I can verify and get me to believe it. Unless it's about the 27 year old redhead down the street. When they tell me she wants me, I believe it!

Unfortunately Very few posters admit when they are wrong... I have seen some of our better posters do it, I have done it, I believe you would do it as a member of that first group, but for quite a few, it just does not happen because of human nature.