Why didn't Vitali - Sanders establish new lineage?

[Dr Z]

Botha fought well against Moorer before getting stopped in the 12th, was beating Tyson before getting caught and had a draw with former lineal champion Briggs. I'd say level of competition had a lot to do with him choosing Botha. But what does that have to do with Vit never being lineal and why?

Vitali was lineal as are all the ring magzine champions. You did know that correct? Again, read thier rules . When Lewis retired as lineal champion ( under ordered re-match for Lewis vs. Klitschko 2 mind you ) just like Tunney and Marciano retired with the title before him, the top rated # 1 - #2 or #3 man fought. The winner considered the new lineal being crowned the new lineal champ. This is how it has been.




Botha was losing badly vs. Moorer and was TKO'd and was getting the worst of it vs. Tyson until he was stopped in four Check the score cards and watch that fight.




Here:

2:59

ref:

Richard Steele Bill Graham

39-36

Dave Moretti

40-35

Dalby Shirley

40-35 all for Tyson, yet you say Botha was getting the better of it?

But that fight was turned into a NC due to a failed drug test.

You do understand all of the above, correct? I am not sure if you do.

[Marchegiano]

Vitali was lineal as are all the ring magzine champions. You did know that correct?

No bud, take some real Ring fanboying to believe that nonsense. Bible of boxing ffs.

[QueensburyRules]

Was he boycotted before or after Tubbs stopped him in South Africa? Enquiring minds want to know.

- - U ain't inquiring. U Dum squared and then cubed into stirfry...

[billeau2]

If they were friends, would it make sense for Lewis to give him a title shot, instead of Botha who was not as good?

Like giving your brother a shot at the undisputed?

[billeau2]

Wasn't there 4 champions in 04?

Kinda hard to name a lineal based on that.

Did Lewis crown Vitali in any semantics?


I'll tell you the whole ratings **** is modern and back dated. It has **** all nothing to do with Sullivan's era which featured the highly recognized champion not recognize a GD thing from the gazette let alone its ratings. He refused their belt let alone their ratings ffs. In Sullivan's era it was the champion who decided what fighters were good enough to fight for the championship. Money, not ****ing ratings, ratings and mandos are a function of bodies not lineal. duh. champion's picking their challengers is what inspired mados, duh.



So you're not going to find rhyme or reason in the ratings nonsense. It was a lie when first presented to fans. It has been post dated just like "man who beat the man" was because matter of factly it is more often than not how a title moves. Not a trigger for it, but rather an after the fact state of being.


What might be more revealing as to why Vitali wasn't singled out is the fact that he didn't unify a GD thing ever.

Who did between Lennox and Wlad?

No one! At least not by my memory or quick look arounds.



Lennox was the last champion to own unfied titles. Wlad was the next one to unify. It took about 6 years. Vitali was retired for like 4 of them.


I'm not sure what ground Vitali would have for lineal. TBH, Wlad's seems shakey at best. It is okay to say no one earned it. Bit long in the tooth by the 2010s but really without undisputed to set the stage you're going to have to reach for a reason to crown a man. The onl one being the last man did the crowning. The new one is some ratings nonsense that doesn't actually even apply to Wlad-Rus.

The rankings... Punch stat All these weight classes... All just window dressing, creating more champions and top rankers than good fighters aiming to be the best in a basic weight division.

Common sense regarding punch stat: The hand is quicker than the eye! So we get amateur fighters that grunt a lot and throw a lot of punches like katie... How many of those land? who knows? Fencing fixed this many many years ago.

[JAB5239]

Vitali was lineal as are all the ring magzine champions. You did know that correct? Again, read thier rules . When Lewis retired as lineal champion ( under ordered re-match for Lewis vs. Klitschko 2 mind you ) just like Tunney and Marciano retired with the title before him, the top rated # 1 - #2 or #3 man fought. The winner considered the new lineal being crowned the new lineal champ. This is how it has been.




Botha was losing badly vs. Moorer and was TKO'd and was getting the worst of it vs. Tyson until he was stopped in four Check the score cards and watch that fight.




Here:

2:59

ref:

Richard Steele Bill Graham

39-36

Dave Moretti

40-35

Dalby Shirley

40-35 all for Tyson, yet you say Botha was getting the better of it?

But that fight was turned into a NC due to a failed drug test.

You do understand all of the above, correct? I am not sure if you do.

So you don't believe in the man who beat the man theory nor the top two fighters fighting to determine the lineal title. You believe it's ok for a fighter to skip over the next highest rated fighter, who in fact he already lost to, to fight a guy who had ONE top ten win in his entire career and that makes him lineal. Ok, got it.

But no, Vits was never the lineal champion.

Contenders for vacant lineal Championships In order to help identify the top contenders in each division, ratings from four different independent online publications are considered (see below).

- Bad Left Hook. Long running, online boxing publication. Bad Left Hook replace Boxing News’ position in our Policy now that Boxing News are utilising the TBRB’s ratings.

- The Ring. Throughout much of the gloved era The Ring Magazine has regularly published the most highly regarded ratings in professional boxing. Their up-to-date ratings are on their website.

- Transnational Boxing Rankings Board. In October 2012 the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board formed, and soon received praise for the balanced, impartial ratings consistently updated on its site.

- ESPN. American based, global television network.

As a minimum, two contenders for a vacant Lineal Championship must meet the following criteria:

Between them, the two boxers must hold at least two of the #1 positions, in the ratings.

Each boxer must be ranked in the top two in at least two of the ratings.

Sanders was not ranked in the Top 2 by the Ring. We know that for a FACT.

[JAB5239]

- - U ain't inquiring. U Dum squared and then cubed into stirfry...

Lol, no answer i see. Par for the course!!

[JAB5239]

https://web.archive.org/web/20081205...Rold040908.asp

[Willie Pep 229]

Was Vitali Klitschko a lineal HW champion?

Ask the man on the street.

Interviewer: Mr. man on the street, do you think Vitali Klitschko was the lineal HW Champion?

Man on the Street: What's a lineal, is that like the WBC?

IV: No sir, it's the man who beat the man and is considered the real champion.

MOTS: By whom?

IV: By the man on the street.

MOTS: Who did you say?

IV: Vitali Klitschko.

MOTS: Oh!, the Russian guy.

IV: Actually Ukrainian

MOTS: Oh yeah! He was the guy who lost to Fury.

IV: No, that was his brother.

MOTS: Who's brother?

IV: Vitali's brother. His name was Vald. Vald Klitschko.

MOTS: Oh? Well OK he was lineal champion then. He's the guy who lost to Fury.

IV. Yes, but what about his brother Vitali?

MOTS: I don't know, why? Was he champion too?

IV: Never mind.


Conclusion: Vitali was never the lineal champion.

[Coverdale]

https://web.archive.org/web/20081205...Rold040908.asp

This part was funny. Written 9th April 2008. A year later, one of the most bitter fan rivalries would begin and continues to this day.

Screenshot 2025-05-01 180326.png