By Your Criteria Is Holyfield An ATG Heavyweight?

[IronDanHamza]

A resounding yes.

[Mr Mitts]

This reminds me of a discussion I had with someone a while back where they were telling me how Holyfield was the greatest heavyweight of all time because he had the greatest resume of all time. Started listing the names: "Tyson, Moorer, Bowe, Lewis....", at which I brought up he never beat Lewis. But to him it didn't matter, all that matters for resume is who you fought and when you fought them. Which got me wondering, for those who lean so much on resume, do you feel this way too?

In determining greatness how much of it is for you just them taking on the best opponents? Or, to what extent do you evaluate what they did in the ring and how they actually performed?

For me, he makes it just inside the cusp for ATG at heavy, and is arguably (possibly) the greatest Cruiser of all time (though it being a newer weight class makes that a bit easier).

I think it is a different amalgam for every individual and very subjective and intuitive due to the actual complexity. The criteria are not clearly lain out like dominoes. Great courage in defeat is worth something, but of course you have to beat some of those greats or outstanding fighters along the way too.

[Tatabanya]

Yes, absolutely.

[DeeMoney]

I think it is a different amalgam for every individual and very subjective and intuitive due to the actual complexity. The criteria are not clearly lain out like dominoes. Great courage in defeat is worth something, but of course you have to beat some of those greats or outstanding fighters along the way too.

I agree, you have to look at the fight and see how the fighter performed within the fight. A given fighter's stock can go up even in a loss (especially with all the shady decisions out there, but not even that is requisite). I was more shocked by people who when they cite resume just throw out opponent blindly without taking into account what took place in the fight. It seems that their number one criteria for greatness is the difficulty of the fighters completed fight, as opposed to the level of performance within the ring.

[BKM-]

One of the greatest I've seen. Overall P4P he goes up even higher in rankings than most of his HW peers. Don't forget he's also one of the Greatest Cruiserweights ever.

[billeau2]

To me Holyfield is analogous to Frazier with respect to rankings. He can certainly be put in a top ten list... but if left out, you probably still could have ten heavyweights who were deserving. Maybe slots 9 or10... But not shoo in level. To be clear, there are different reasons for Frazier and Holly being in this position. Though one could argue that Frazier was past his best when Foreman beat him up just as Holly was showing the years when he lost to Toney and a few others.

[The D3vil]

Steroids aside, yes.

He should've been the 4x HW champion & would've been if he hadn't been robbed at like 46 against the big Russian.

He beat Tyson, Moorer, Foreman, Holmes, & Bowe.

IF he fought in this era, he would still be undefeated.

[Marchegiano]

GOAT candidate actually



The same exact posters who say things like Holy should be discredited for roids, despite Holy having never popped dirty, will defend a litany of champions who didn't even bother making any pretense of fairness or global representation.

[billeau2]

GOAT candidate actually



The same exact posters who say things like Holy should be discredited for roids, despite Holy having never popped dirty, will defend a litany of champions who didn't even bother making any pretense of fairness or global representation.

If he did so many roids how did he became the "bstard maker?" Nobody made more of em! There are allegedlly whole villages of the Btard maker's lion prodigies... An Army! You cannot do that on roids!

[DeeMoney]

GOAT candidate actually



The same exact posters who say things like Holy should be discredited for roids, despite Holy having never popped dirty, will defend a litany of champions who didn't even bother making any pretense of fairness or global representation.

I was a huge Holyfield fan as a kid, but have a hard time finding an avenue for him to GOAT. He wasn't the best heavyweight of his era (Lewis), doesn't have the best resume of wins (Ali), doesn't have a dominant run like Louis.

What path do you see for him to be GOAT at heavy?