Be critical of Tommy Burns

[Marchegiano]

Tommy seems like, on paper anyway, he should be one of the most celebrated champions in all of boxing history but he isn't. He hardly ever gets mentioned in any HW discussion and despite having a strong argument in P4P he's never in the convo.

Did Burns ever draw the color line?

Did Burns ever refuse to fight any boxer for any reason?

We all know he was first to a world tour so you can't hardly say he stayed home or had home advantage.

Dude beat his wife or some such? Bro, ain't no one this good. But here I have Tommy Burns and I can't find a single thing to validate his lack of legacy.

The most I can drum against Tommy is he took his time seeing Jack. That's it. That's hardly anything in boxing.




By continuing the legacies of those written by racists we uphold old racist ideas. I have told youse this before in plenty of frameworks.



In this case Tommy Burns is mostly remembered as the man who lost the title to the black man in a one sided affair. When men who call for colorline do your writing and hold authority over opinion and consensus it is no wonder this otherwise inarguable ATG is often forgotten and left out of lists while men like Dempsey enjoy near impunity. Tommy Burns losing to The Unforgiveable Blackness is yet to be forgiven. Dempsey using the colorline has yet to be held against Dempsey. Gee I wonder what hand wrought this?



Yes, I know, because I dropped Dempsey you need to cry. Try to follow the point this time.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Wasn't a one sided match, it was fixed with a premature stoppage after one of JJohnson's lackeys crawled underneath the ring to scream for a stoppage that prompted the Police.

Burns had buddy he defended his belt thrice against as they toured the world. Got ripped off when JJohnson skipped out on the agreed up rematch and then stiffed his mandatory Langford in England.

Still screaming colorline with baited breath again, eh?

[Marchegiano]

I expected something like that yeah, but not that damn outlandish, christ Queen


Maybe check around a bit. I'm kinda meant to eat crow on this one. ... not some crazy JJ conspiracy nonsense though. I'd def have to see something other than take your word for it. FFS.

[billeau2]

I expected something like that yeah, but not that damn outlandish, christ Queen


Maybe check around a bit. I'm kinda meant to eat crow on this one. ... not some crazy JJ conspiracy nonsense though. I'd def have to see something other than take your word for it. FFS.

Queeny ever met a conspiracy he did not like.

[max baer]

When I think of the colour line that white boxers used to avoid fighting black fighters in victorian times I think of the debate about why greek and roman sculptures had small p£nises and the reason was that back then the feeling was that only wild beasts had big ones and men who were cultured and educated and refined had small members because they were fine, graceful men in the image of God.
So black men were ****** who were wild like beasts and this was the reason that a cultured white boxer would not tangle with such wild animals.
I feel black people had such a bad time of it around these times and they had no opportunities to make something of themselves and earn a life of riches or an academic career and to get into a position of challenging for boxing titles they had to be a hundred times better then anyone else.
See me I really loved the way Jack Johnson shoved all these attitudes back into the white faces and laughed at them in such a way. I think fair play to him why shouldn't he live the life he has earned doing one of the riskiest, dangerous trades at the time.
Johnson followed tommy burns all around the world to encourage him to fight and it came in the end to australia where burns was offered so much cash that if he turned it down there would be no other excuse he could come up with other then he was a coward.
So the genteel white boxers with all their refinement had to make way for black men who came up a hundred times harder fighting every day in saloons while white men bet on the outcome.
Sorry I am rambling a bit today.

[JAB5239]

- - Wasn't a one sided match, it was fixed with a premature stoppage after one of JJohnson's lackeys crawled underneath the ring to scream for a stoppage that prompted the Police.

Burns had buddy he defended his belt thrice against as they toured the world. Got ripped off when JJohnson skipped out on the agreed up rematch and then stiffed his mandatory Langford in England.

Still screaming colorline with baited breath again, eh?

[Dr Z]

Be critical of Tommy Burns? He did draw the color line as many black and white champions did. But when a huge purse was offered to him, past words mean nothing. $$$ talks.

I don't know why Hart did not receive a re-match. Why? Anyone know? He lost his fight to Jack Sulllvan in the fight before Hart and never fought him again! He fought Squires three times. An O'brien three times. But Hart only once and lost to Jack Sullivan.

He fought Johnson at 168 pounds ( a very low weight for him ) and many at ringside said he looked sickly.

Burns was rumoured to be suffering from the effects from jaundice or influenza, and weighed in at 168 pounds (76 kg)—15 pounds (6.8 kg) lighter than his previous fight, and well below Johnson's 192 pounds (87 kg) - Wikipedia.

[billeau2]

Tommy seems like, on paper anyway, he should be one of the most celebrated champions in all of boxing history but he isn't. He hardly ever gets mentioned in any HW discussion and despite having a strong argument in P4P he's never in the convo.

Did Burns ever draw the color line?

Did Burns ever refuse to fight any boxer for any reason?

We all know he was first to a world tour so you can't hardly say he stayed home or had home advantage.

Dude beat his wife or some such? Bro, ain't no one this good. But here I have Tommy Burns and I can't find a single thing to validate his lack of legacy.

The most I can drum against Tommy is he took his time seeing Jack. That's it. That's hardly anything in boxing.




By continuing the legacies of those written by racists we uphold old racist ideas. I have told youse this before in plenty of frameworks.



In this case Tommy Burns is mostly remembered as the man who lost the title to the black man in a one sided affair. When men who call for colorline do your writing and hold authority over opinion and consensus it is no wonder this otherwise inarguable ATG is often forgotten and left out of lists while men like Dempsey enjoy near impunity. Tommy Burns losing to The Unforgiveable Blackness is yet to be forgiven. Dempsey using the colorline has yet to be held against Dempsey. Gee I wonder what hand wrought this?



Yes, I know, because I dropped Dempsey you need to cry. Try to follow the point this time.

He definitely managed to beat an ATG level fighter, even if it took a few bouts to do so. I don't know how you could call him one of the most celebrated though... I don't know how we could call him a great heavyweight frankly, though certainly an excellent one.

[billeau2]

Be critical of Tommy Burns? He did draw the color line as many black and white champions did. But when a huge purse was offered to him, past words mean nothing. $$$ talks.

I don't know why Hart did not receive a re-match. Why? Anyone know? He lost his fight to Jack Sulllvan in the fight before Hart and never fought him again! He fought Squires three times. An O'brien three times. But Hart only once and lost to Jack Sullivan.

He fought Johnson at 168 pounds ( a very low weight for him ) and many at ringside said he looked sickly.

How exactly did he "draw the color line?" enlighten me... And also consider that Canada has a very different interpretation of the so called color line. That different persists to this day. Tell us how Burns otherwise unwilling was enticed by a large purse...

[Dr Z]

Burns drew the color line before he fought Johnson, and as far as I know he is the only black fight he meet. So…..