Greb draws the colorline

[billeau2]

After reading through the content from both sides of the argument, it seems clear to me that Greb did use the color-line, but only in this specific instance. He's agreeing to fight any other White fighter, but declining to fight a Black fighter because he's Black. I mean...that's what the color-line was, right?

Was he concerned about race wars...? When it comes to these type of scenarios, I believe there is only one reason the color-line was used. It's not because these guys are afraid of other boxers, per se. I do believe that they are afraid of how they would be perceived if they lose to a Black fighter. Greb at least apparently didn't worry about this at other times in his career. Only he can tell us why this particular time he wanted to use the color-line. Personally, I'm not buying it was because he was afraid of a race war. Maybe his woman was really in his ear at this particular point in his career. I don't know

Nice analysis T! To me it might be something totally mundane. Imagine some podcast host using a gender neutral term because of cancel culture... Then the pendulum swings violently the other way (T r u m p) and someone asks "does that host really believe that s e x type is not biological? Keeping in mind that we have had such showdowns before, like the Scopes trial where Creationist views being taught in school was debated... We came down on the side of science, yet here we go again...

Considering such things let us assume years later in a discussion someone asks: "Did this podcast host use a socially constructed, cancel culture reference to ***ual orientation?" We would have to consider that socially what the host did was normal. He may have even made the reference reflexively... In Harry's time it was normal for people to consider racial and ethnic pride as something close to the vest. Nobody would blink twice if a man tried to make a move that favored his "clan" whether that be racial, ethnic, or otherwise socially constructed. A German American trying to give a chance to another Caucasian might well appear like a Jesuit favoring a new pope who came from that same order. PS we just lost the first Jesuit Pope lol.

It even persists today in other countries! When I was in Canada going to grad school in the early 2000's a Black Kid was misbehaving on a public transportation car and the driver loudly told him "Cut it out Boy!" I nearly shiat in my Murican pants! thinking I was about to be an extra in Spike Lee's last scene of "Do the Right Thing," but nobody batted so much as an eyelash. Nobody saw it as insulting the way I did, including the kid who was reprimanded. Just food for thought.

[billeau2]

I don't hide or deny my *******ry but that's about all I did. I posted a contemporary source, stood my ground, and was an ******* about it.


Point being is if it was nothing it would not have taken five pages, two contemporary sources with a secondary source to verify at least one of them, three different IBRO cosigns, and a respected mild mannered poster's verdict to get some level of acceptance.


Which mind, Jab thinks he's detracting from by wondering and musing on Greb's motivations.


Title of the thread says dude drew the color line. What I stood my ground on was dude drew the color line. Late replacement, wife excuse doe, Willie was a mistake, don't really care. I rolled my eyes at that weak ass excuse and that was it.




You haven't been here very much lately so you might have missed it, but, basically, it all goes back to Nat Fleischer being a ****ty historian and the vehement protection the narratives he left receives.




That is to say, I didn't say it's a big deal. I repeatedly said it shouldn't be a big deal but grown ass men have little boys emotions tied to lies.




The god-like legacy of Harry Greb is less God-like and more human if you actually take the time to look. - That message should be more like a duh, whatever bro, quit wasting my time. Not five pages of crying denial like children.



ruffle ruffle, but really this post, this whole thread should be boring, nonpoint, nothing to see here. The only thing on display is the reaction to a piece of his history more validated than most of his record.

You need people to defend sacred cows, alleged motivations, etc. Because if people just accept very basic broad strokes about where a historical figures stood, you simply get swings of a pendulum going back and fourth between extremes. I still do not know where Greb stood relative to the color line, but I do know his motivations were not extraordinary. Famous people with extraordinary motivations often wind up like Galileo. Galileo discovered empirical gravity, invented microscopic lenses just as Leewenhook did, he was an extraordinary genius.

But before we fault the church for condemning him one should ask what our thoughts would have been. Ditto for Harry: What were the attitudes informing his thinking? What were the implications of taking the fight, versus avoiding it? I still feel like I do not know the truth of these questions but I am skeptical that Greb feared another fighter. Nothing I have heard makes me want to question this skeptascism. I do not think Greb was a moral paragon. I doubt he would have tried to do the fight to challenge the color line, and I also think he had a gift for gab. he may have said what he said tongue in cheek, and I do not say this because I dare not challenge his foibles... It just happens to be an aspect noted about his personality.

My point is simply that we need the back and fourth to arrive at some consensus regarding truth.

[JAB5239]

Oh I definitely agree with you. I don't think he feared any boxer. And since he fought Black boxers after this point, I don't think he even had a fear of having people turn on him if he lost to a Black fighter. That's why I mentioned maybe his wife really was able to get into his head at this time. As for her reasons for not wanting him to fight a Black fighter, your guess is as good as mine. It may have very well been for a fear of riots.

Ultimately it's his decision. It just seems that factually he decided to avoid the Black fighter in this particular instance. But I'm personally not comfortable going farther than that and claiming why he did so. Plus, personally, any negative that may come from his actions in this instance drawing the color-line during this charity event is outweighed by him obviously not drawing the color-line otherwise in his career.


Honestly, I think it's much ado about nothing. Mache just likes to ruffle some feathers.

I took it as she didn't care if he fought black fighters as he always had, but that she didn't want him to while the riots were happening. The reason why is anyone's guess, but I myself wouldn't call that drawing the color line but instead being socially conscious. Jmo though.

[QueensburyRules]

Multiple sources are pointing to something like what this one says:



If he was offering to fight any White boxer, but not Gans, then it's certain it was Gans' skin tone that disqualified him.

- - It's 100% certain that Gans was a lightweight and Greb was middlewt fighting LHeavies and Heavies.

Your "certain" is 100% personal opinion.

[travestyny]

- - It's 100% certain that Gans was a lightweight and Greb was middlewt fighting LHeavies and Heavies.

Your "certain" is 100% personal opinion.

It's just called having common sense.

[JAB5239]

It's just called having common sense.

No common sense there. He's way behind, looking for more hooch and has NO idea what's being talked about. It happens.....I guess.

[QueensburyRules]

It's just called having common sense.

- U welcome to school us on the middle/LH/Heavies Gans whooped.

Boys, this ain't even gonna git good. It's more tragedy endemic to the Low Brow part of boxing representing it's impotence in the World's Major Sports.

[JAB5239]

- U welcome to school us on the middle/LH/Heavies Gans whooped.

Boys, this ain't even gonna git good. It's more tragedy endemic to the Low Brow part of boxing representing it's impotence in the World's Major Sports.

Gans beat plenty of middlweights. That was the class he fought in catch up!! He also has a win overbat least one heavyweight.

[QueensburyRules]

Gans beat plenty of middlweights. That was the class he fought in catch up!! He also has a win overbat least one heavyweight.

- - What, no names? U minder on strike again?

[JAB5239]

- - What, no names? U minder on strike again?

Oh my....look at the swine begging for pearls!!