Greb draws the colorline

[Marchegiano]

Been seeing some folks claim Greb did not draw the colorline because you can see black men on his record.




According to contemporary sources Greb drew the colorline when the challenger was scary enough for it.



--

Auburn Advertiser Journal 1919-12-03:



Red Mason announced that Grieb had drawn the color line and would not box Gans. He was greeted with a round of jeers and the spectators, went in numbers but some insistently demanded that the battle be fought.

The crowd hooted and Joe Dunfee, Referee Jack Lewis, and others tried to persuade Greb and his manager to reconsider, but they remained adamant and declined the issue. The spectators, considerably disgruntled, made their way through the exits and disappeared into the night

After the crowd had filed out of the arena last flight Greb 'explained that his refusal to box Gans was based on a promise he had made his wife that he never would enter too ring to give battle to a negro. His manager admitted that Greb had fought Willie Langford, a negro boxer, in Buffalo about three years ago but said that battle was the result of a misunderstanding.

---


promised his wife doe boys.

[JAB5239]

Jack Blackburn, Zulu Kid, Kid Norfolk, Tiger Flowers. I was figuring maybe he made this promise to his wife when the got married and didn't fight any black fighters between the years they got married and when she passed away, but with just a quick search is found that to not be the case.

[JAB5239]

I feel like I've been duped here!!

[QueensburyRules]

- - Lessee, Greb a middle/LH fighting Hvys, and the OP expects us to swallow this era yellow journalism?

And fight a feather/lightweight to boot? This place used to be quite a bit more cognizant of the fantastical history of Boxing.

[Marchegiano]

Jack Blackburn, Zulu Kid, Kid Norfolk, Tiger Flowers. I was figuring maybe he made this promise to his wife when the got married and didn't fight any black fighters between the years they got married and when she passed away, but with just a quick search is found that to not be the case.

I feel like I've been duped here!!

Well, kinda. Wait. how do you mean?

You can check with the Syracuse Harold for another source if you mean I'm the jabroni doing the duping!

I'm not bothered either way. You're right to feel like something ain't right. Either I'm writing fairy tales OR the men before me did.

For the former, if my willingness to provide sources wasn't obvious by me throwing out another kinda unprompted then here I am blatantly telling you I have a few sources for this story and would encourage you to have a look through what you consider a good source because it's not actually an obscure story from then. It's obscure now because, you know, Nat did no real research and the other jabronis called historians just copied him until about the mid 2000s.


Harry, Gene, and Jack just get the benefit of being media darlings during a time when covering up any argument against them was easy to do. More recently boxing has acquired earnest historians. Men who are looking to tell what happened, not necessarily make money.



This isn't the first time I've told y'all Harry may not have been as racist as Jack or Gene but he was a racist and he did benefit from the era's racism. His record should be viewed as suspect at best.



Or to say that differently; Greb stands out in history because, duh, look at his era. Don't look too close though, it'll humanize him and turn his godly record into something far more human, time based, and cultural. in my opinion as the extra super humble chronicler de la pygmachia





But really I only brought this one to source because someone claimed Greb can't draw the colorline and fight black men. He did. That's exactly what he did and youse not knowing that is youse not knowing, not me being a crazy ******* out to make Harry and his fans look bad.

[billeau2]

Hard for me to get my head around this tale. Greb seemed unfazed, fought with many handicaps... But Gans was damn good! May have been behind a lot of punching theory that Dempsey gets credit for developing... a real conondrum!

[billeau2]

Well, kinda. Wait. how do you mean?

You can check with the Syracuse Harold for another source if you mean I'm the jabroni doing the duping!

I'm not bothered either way. You're right to feel like something ain't right. Either I'm writing fairy tales OR the men before me did.

For the former, if my willingness to provide sources wasn't obvious by me throwing out another kinda unprompted then here I am blatantly telling you I have a few sources for this story and would encourage you to have a look through what you consider a good source because it's not actually an obscure story from then. It's obscure now because, you know, Nat did no real research and the other jabronis called historians just copied him until about the mid 2000s.


Harry, Gene, and Jack just get the benefit of being media darlings during a time when covering up any argument against them was easy to do. More recently boxing has acquired earnest historians. Men who are looking to tell what happened, not necessarily make money.



This isn't the first time I've told y'all Harry may not have been as racist as Jack or Gene but he was a racist and he did benefit from the era's racism. His record should be viewed as suspect at best.



Or to say that differently; Greb stands out in history because, duh, look at his era. Don't look too close though, it'll humanize him and turn his godly record into something far more human, time based, and cultural. in my opinion as the extra super humble chronicler de la pygmachia





But really I only brought this one to source because someone claimed Greb can't draw the colorline and fight black men. He did. That's exactly what he did and youse not knowing that is youse not knowing, not me being a crazy ******* out to make Harry and his fans look bad.

Well we know that Tunney was clannish. The Irish were fighting with the Blacks for upward mobility, both groups had been shangheid into a Civil War that was about far more than their interests. Recent Africans were told the war would free them, the Irish were told it would give them opportunities in the New World. We also kow that the relationship with the press was much more fluid back then. I doubt writers like London would even claim to be an objective source lol. Nobody blinked an eye when London, the socialist darling for the oppressed, and every animal lovers friend, went after Johnson in truly de****able fashion... even (as a mere agent of the press) upsetting Jeffries retirement to try to bring Johnson down...

[JAB5239]

Are we taking Panama Joe Gans? If so there is no colorline to discuss, Greb had fought many colored fighter already. If were saying he ducked....I don't see that either. Was there a time Gans eas seen as greater than the men Greb was fighting?

[Bronson66]

are we taking panama joe gans? If so there is no colorline to discuss, greb had fought many colored fighter already. If were saying he ducked....i don't see that either. Was there a time gans eas seen as greater than the men greb was fighting?

i cant see any case to answer here.

[Marchegiano]

Are we taking Panama Joe Gans? If so there is no colorline to discuss, Greb had fought many colored fighter already. If were saying he ducked....I don't see that either. Was there a time Gans eas seen as greater than the men Greb was fighting?

It is Panama.

The reason given for not fighting him, from both Greb himself and his manager prior, was they were drawing the color line ... so I'm just super confused by "If so there is no colorline here" ... That's the verbiage they used.

"Greb had fought many colored fighter already. If were saying he ducked....I don't see that either" Yup Greb fights black men so can't use the colorline as an excuse to duck black men, is the exact nonsense that inspired this thread bud. ... What do you mean you don't see it? I did not write the multiple 1919 reports of Greb refusing to fight Panama because he was drawing the colorline and excusing prior fights against black men as "misunderstandings". I'm not post dating the term or reasoning. It's multiple sources, and horse's mouth. To be clear, I'm not upset but I am confused AF.

"Was there a time Gans eas seen as greater than the men Greb was fighting?" When did Gans win the popularity contest? What a metric bud. Nah though, what actually happened is Panama gave Harry a bit of a hard time in sparring and Greb didn't want that trouble at that point in his career. Or at least that's my best guess/try at rationalizing it beyond what Mason and Greb both claimed. They had sparred a few times in a few different camps. Best as I could tell you there may have been some personal hard feelings over some of those spars but as far as rationalizing his "drawing the color line" using resume or white writers bragging more about him than Greb; nah. Can't be done.




I do find it curious you're more than willing to accept the same sources when they are what backs his record but not when they print a narrative on the man.





When I said use a source you like if you don't like the 2 I handed you, I didn't mean boxrec Not to be a ****, love you dude, but nah, if you're just going to boxrec+feelings then I think I might hurt you by accident. I'm not here to pick on my dude Jab. I do mean to humanize this historically inaccurate depiction of Greb though. The long and short my man is everyone not named Harry Greb gets more scrutiny against them. I dare say you and this thread is a case in point. Can you name another boxer whose record you accept but narrative you deny from the same author and source? See what i mean? If I'm just going to tell the truth then ... gonna hurt some folks feelings. It doesn't make Greb less great for him to be a human with flaws who didn't always make the best choices in 100 years hindsight.