Greb draws the colorline

[billeau2]

"good argument hygiene."

1. Cannot prove a negative. Lets not ask to prove that Greb "wasn't" something... You prove a positive not a negative.
2. With newspaper quotes inevitably one comes to the limits of anecdotal proof. It is akin to the debate about Dempsey loading his gloves. You ultimately are dealing with accounts given by people with their motivations.
3. The best way to deal with these accounts is to forsee motivations. "Why would a person say such and such?"
4. Always question whether a fighter was "scared." Fighters as a rule are not scared... Often there are other reasons to avoid a fight, or conflict.

lets deconstruct Greb: A man who fought with chronic handicaps, fought some of the very best fighters... Grew up in a boxing haven (Pittsburgh!). What indications are there that he fought, didn't fight, any class of opposition? Then we can perhaps understand a decision made.

Lets deconstruct the times...

Just some ideas that might help.

[Marchegiano]

"good argument hygiene."

1. Cannot prove a negative. Lets not ask to prove that Greb "wasn't" something... You prove a positive not a negative.
2. With newspaper quotes inevitably one comes to the limits of anecdotal proof. It is akin to the debate about Dempsey loading his gloves. You ultimately are dealing with accounts given by people with their motivations.
3. The best way to deal with these accounts is to forsee motivations. "Why would a person say such and such?"
4. Always question whether a fighter was "scared." Fighters as a rule are not scared... Often there are other reasons to avoid a fight, or conflict.

lets deconstruct Greb: A man who fought with chronic handicaps, fought some of the very best fighters... Grew up in a boxing haven (Pittsburgh!). What indications are there that he fought, didn't fight, any class of opposition? Then we can perhaps understand a decision made.

Lets deconstruct the times...

Just some ideas that might help.

Love you, thanks for this bud.





Nah dog, get these whiney bitches back on track:


1. Prove a negative? I didn't ask anyone to. I didn't ask anyone to prove anything actually.


2. Well, it is IBRO verified thanks buds. Now by more than one of them . Likewise, I've already made it clear if they pull that card on me I am using it against his record because I know it is more verified, corroborated, and printed, then quite a lot of his record.


3. Oh if I was unclear it is to juxtapose this forum into showing off their bias and the wall of dumb I am met with any time I tell them about anything not already popularized by some researcher prior.


4. Whether or not Harry ****ing Greb was ever scared of anything shouldn't even be part of this convo. Christ almighty these ****wit bitches ... The title is Harry Greb draws the colorline. The message is even Greb drew the color line when it suited him. The point is I know if I tell this story most if not all this forum is going to cry and tantrum at me with emotional denial rather than learn anything. I didn't expect Jab and I'm kinda sorry about the who now, but **** it, shoe fits.


5. Extra point for y'all. I can see you guys are still struggling with the idea you can not accept half the source and throw the other half away just because it makes you cry. You ***** ass bitches. Oh I like what the author says in this sentence so truth, but this next sentence I don't like so lie.

[billeau2]

Love you, thanks for this bud.





Nah dog, get these whiney bitches back on track:


1. Prove a negative? I didn't ask anyone to. I didn't ask anyone to prove anything actually.


2. Well, it is IBRO verified thanks buds. Now by more than one of them . Likewise, I've already made it clear if they pull that card on me I am using it against his record because I know it is more verified, corroborated, and printed, then quite a lot of his record.


3. Oh if I was unclear it is to juxtapose this forum into showing off their bias and the wall of dumb I am met with any time I tell them about anything not already popularized by some researcher prior.


4. Whether or not Harry ****ing Greb was ever scared of anything shouldn't even be part of this convo. Christ almighty these ****wit bitches ... The title is Harry Greb draws the colorline. The message is even Greb drew the color line when it suited him. The point is I know if I tell this story most if not all this forum is going to cry and tantrum at me with emotional denial rather than learn anything. I didn't expect Jab and I'm kinda sorry about the who now, but **** it, shoe fits.


5. Extra point for y'all. I can see you guys are still struggling with the idea you can not accept half the source and throw the other half away just because it makes you cry. You ***** ass bitches. Oh I like what the author says in this sentence so truth, but this next sentence I don't like so lie.

1. Generally, no one in particular. Just a great policy.

2. Corraberation is great. Any pattern can become an interesting quality, or even prove a cause. "Christians wear blue suede shoes in Kentucky" is perhaps a clue, while not a direct cause/effect.

3. We have to look at that carefully... We have a general level of understanding regarding Greb and while it would not be extraordinary to prove he had other motivations, it would take some understanding and a few good sources that can show motivation. Greb attracts that energy... Some are still searching attics in Pittsburgh for some ole lady who liked that chap Harry and thought he was joking when he told her to put this tape of his fight away for him.

4. Really? I mean... If you look at the times and all, one would probably expect Harry to draw the color line. People were clannish, they often thought themselves representatives of their race, and did not like competition. The exceptions stood out more than the status quo this way... For example, did you know that Charlie Burley came from a politically active, socialist family background? What would motivate Harry to act otherwise?

Now,when you claim a specific event, it gets tricky because of proof and in this case collaberation of a plethora of Anecdotal sources.

5. My own feeling is, nobody has the need to make Greb a moral paragon, but at the same time, to show a fighter acting to sabatoge a fight because of the color line is a very specific set of actions as compared to not making the fighter look like a stand out.

With all that said, I also do see a cult of Harry. I do not think anyone in this debate is a member... But when people start chiding Dempsey for avoiding Greb, it makes me think.

[Bronson66]

1. Generally, no one in particular. Just a great policy.

2. Corraberation is great. Any pattern can become an interesting quality, or even prove a cause. "Christians wear blue suede shoes in Kentucky" is perhaps a clue, while not a direct cause/effect.

3. We have to look at that carefully... We have a general level of understanding regarding Greb and while it would not be extraordinary to prove he had other motivations, it would take some understanding and a few good sources that can show motivation. Greb attracts that energy... Some are still searching attics in Pittsburgh for some ole lady who liked that chap Harry and thought he was joking when he told her to put this tape of his fight away for him.

4. Really? I mean... If you look at the times and all, one would probably expect Harry to draw the color line. People were clannish, they often thought themselves representatives of their race, and did not like competition. The exceptions stood out more than the status quo this way... For example, did you know that Charlie Burley came from a politically active, socialist family background? What would motivate Harry to act otherwise?

Now,when you claim a specific event, it gets tricky because of proof and in this case collaberation of a plethora of Anecdotal sources.

5. My own feeling is, nobody has the need to make Greb a moral paragon, but at the same time, to show a fighter acting to sabatoge a fight because of the color line is a very specific set of actions as compared to not making the fighter look like a stand out.

With all that said, I also do see a cult of Harry. I do not think anyone in this debate is a member... But when people start chiding Dempsey for avoiding Greb, it makes me think.

All the hysterical, emotional meltdown going on here,all the totally uncalled for, gratuitous insults is one way traffic,all coming from one poster with almost messianic delusions of bringing the truth to us,"half wit,dumbass ,whiney bitches," in the real world ,where men face up to each other , this poster would have his teeth knocked down his throat, and what a good thing that would be!

BTW Burley was half white,so maybe he was only half avoided?

[JAB5239]

Love you, thanks for this bud.





Nah dog, get these whiney bitches back on track:


1. Prove a negative? I didn't ask anyone to. I didn't ask anyone to prove anything actually.


2. Well, it is IBRO verified thanks buds. Now by more than one of them . Likewise, I've already made it clear if they pull that card on me I am using it against his record because I know it is more verified, corroborated, and printed, then quite a lot of his record.


3. Oh if I was unclear it is to juxtapose this forum into showing off their bias and the wall of dumb I am met with any time I tell them about anything not already popularized by some researcher prior.


4. Whether or not Harry ****ing Greb was ever scared of anything shouldn't even be part of this convo. Christ almighty these ****wit bitches ... The title is Harry Greb draws the colorline. The message is even Greb drew the color line when it suited him. The point is I know if I tell this story most if not all this forum is going to cry and tantrum at me with emotional denial rather than learn anything. I didn't expect Jab and I'm kinda sorry about the who now, but **** it, shoe fits.


5. Extra point for y'all. I can see you guys are still struggling with the idea you can not accept half the source and throw the other half away just because it makes you cry. You ***** ass bitches. Oh I like what the author says in this sentence so truth, but this next sentence I don't like so lie.

You have one newspaper account claiming it is basically what they were saying. You claiming a color line was drawn because he said no to a second substitute in less than 24 hrs is absurd just because said fighter was black. It's a reasonable decision for any fighter.

And let not make a claim whether Harry was scared or not shouldn't be part of this conversation when you started this thread with "According to contemporary sources Greb drew the colorline when the challenger was scary enough for it". You've become very hostile over this, because other aren't accepting your opinion. Lighten up a little.

[billeau2]

All the hysterical, emotional meltdown going on here,all the totally uncalled for, gratuitous insults is one way traffic,all coming from one poster with almost messianic delusions of bringing the truth to us,"half wit,dumbass ,whiney bitches," in the real world ,where men face up to each other , this poster would have his teeth knocked down his throat, and what a good thing that would be!

BTW Burley was half white,so maybe he was only half avoided?

. No doubt making up the white half by being a Molly Mcquire!

[Anomalocaris]

Harry ducked no one.

EVER.

His record proves that.

[solidman]

Nobody can tarnish Greb's reputation in my mind. He fought many black fighters and he fought the best. A true legend who was ducked by the great Jack Dempsey.

[Mr Mitts]

I can't really excoriate Mr Margie for being goofy. Hell, I'm goofy myself. He is offended pretty easily but makes many good contributions. The members he dislikes are not the ones I dislike, but we all have a few non-favorites. I have published many posts that did not get a single response or like.

Every thread is just seeking the forum pulse. And when you have missed it you will know, and vice versa. I just had a decent thread killed by a halfwit with nothing to contribute but vitriol, who claims he/she does not want to flame but does at the first opportunity .

So think of people who contribute very little. Rock contributes a lot, but like anyone sometimes misses the pulse.

[Marchegiano]

You have one newspaper account claiming it is basically what they were saying. You claiming a color line was drawn because he said no to a second substitute in less than 24 hrs is absurd just because said fighter was black. It's a reasonable decision for any fighter.

And let not make a claim whether Harry was scared or not shouldn't be part of this conversation when you started this thread with "According to contemporary sources Greb drew the colorline when the challenger was scary enough for it". You've become very hostile over this, because other aren't accepting your opinion. Lighten up a little.

Dunno why you're denying the secondary source you brought. You have two sources quoting the term color line.


Not my fault your source claimed he ran away from Panama and the point wasn't to imply Harry Greb feared any man. The point was your acceptance of a weak source when it challenges your held notions less.


You brought me a source that mentions plenty, what is in quotes? What is quoted, who are they quoting? Okay so in your weak source that 100% backs what I've told you, quotes only what I have claimed, it also mixes in the added and unquoted late replacement and Harry running away tale does it not? Okay then, you've latched on to one half that story for why?

Circle back to me pointing out your willingness to accept a weak source provided it challenges you less.