Greb draws the colorline

[Marchegiano]

All the hysterical, emotional meltdown going on here,all the totally uncalled for, gratuitous insults is one way traffic,all coming from one poster with almost messianic delusions of bringing the truth to us,"half wit,dumbass ,whiney bitches," in the real world ,where men face up to each other , this poster would have his teeth knocked down his throat, and what a good thing that would be!

BTW Burley was half white,so maybe he was only half avoided?

The only reason you're running with the bad source angle here is because you've got a group to hide in. The other thread you speak to this subject in on the other forum did not take up your stance so readily and so you are quiet.

You're a tiny, weak, person who is so easy to hurt and offend most times I do it by accident.


In the real world I am even worse, actually. I want to get some communication out of you morons so I can only get you so emotional. Cute addition and assumption for some old, know **** all nothing outside of a magazine, kunt who starts his post with crying about personal insults.


I don't bemuse what you're like in real life. I don't speak to who you are outside of the subject. I don't even drag extra **** I'm still pissy about around the forums. You do. My insults are boxing relative, what I talk about is forum relative, I don't know or care about you but here we are, what is this the third or forth time you've told me IRL blah blah blah. Bro, you're too ****ing ****** to handle me and now your frustrated it's online and you're not young.

[travestyny]

After reading through the content from both sides of the argument, it seems clear to me that Greb did use the color-line, but only in this specific instance. He's agreeing to fight any other White fighter, but declining to fight a Black fighter because he's Black. I mean...that's what the color-line was, right?

Was he concerned about race wars...? When it comes to these type of scenarios, I believe there is only one reason the color-line was used. It's not because these guys are afraid of other boxers, per se. I do believe that they are afraid of how they would be perceived if they lose to a Black fighter. Greb at least apparently didn't worry about this at other times in his career. Only he can tell us why this particular time he wanted to use the color-line. Personally, I'm not buying it was because he was afraid of a race war. Maybe his woman was really in his ear at this particular point in his career. I don't know

[JAB5239]

Dunno why you're denying the secondary source you brought. You have two sources quoting the term color line.


Not my fault your source claimed he ran away from Panama and the point wasn't to imply Harry Greb feared any man. The point was your acceptance of a weak source when it challenges your held notions less.


You brought me a source that mentions plenty, what is in quotes? What is quoted, who are they quoting? Okay so in your weak source that 100% backs what I've told you, quotes only what I have claimed, it also mixes in the added and unquoted late replacement and Harry running away tale does it not? Okay then, you've latched on to one half that story for why?

Circle back to me pointing out your willingness to accept a weak source provided it challenges you less.

The source said and I quote "basically boiled down to" drawing the color line. This does not mean a colorline was drawn, and it certainly doesn't mean Greb was scared which you inferred when you said "Greb drew the colorline when the challenger was scary enough for it". It is an opinion who's motive we do not know.

He also did not run away. He put up his hand and apologized for using the N word, which I'm sure was very commonly used back then with whites talking about or to blacks.

As far as what he told his wife. I went back and read that again. He told his wife he wouldnt fight an black man during the red summer (1919 race riots). You can call it drawing the color line. I call it being socially aware and responsible. As already pointed out several times Greb fought colored fighters before he was married, while he was married and after his wife passed away. Your assertions he drew a colorline out of fear or racial bias are ridiculous when you look at all the facts.

You're talking about my willingness to accept a weak source but it's you banking on the words of ONE newspaper account and the never even said he drew a color line, they said "basically". Put together everything else ive given you and i dont think any logical person would come to the conclusion that Greb actually did this because of any fears or racial biases.

[Marchegiano]

The source said and I quote "basically boiled down to" drawing the color line. This does not mean a colorline was drawn, and it certainly doesn't mean Greb was scared which you inferred when you said "Greb drew the colorline when the challenger was scary enough for it". It is an opinion who's motive we do not know.

He also did not run away. He put up his hand and apologized for using the N word, which I'm sure was very commonly used back then with whites talking about or to blacks.

As far as what he told his wife. I went back and read that again. He told his wife he wouldnt fight an black man during the red summer (1919 race riots). You can call it drawing the color line. I call it being socially aware and responsible. As already pointed out several times Greb fought colored fighters before he was married, while he was married and after his wife passed away. Your assertions he drew a colorline out of fear or racial bias are ridiculous when you look at all the facts.

You're talking about my willingness to accept a weak source but it's you banking on the words of ONE newspaper account and the never even said he drew a color line, they said "basically". Put together everything else ive given you and i dont think any logical person would come to the conclusion that Greb actually did this because of any fears or racial biases.

Yes, you are quoting a source. that source quotes a source.

Think what you like but the fact that you are quoting the portion you like from the source while ignoring the only quote that source sources from its primary is not beyond your comprehension and I know it.


It's more than one newspaper. You are not too ****** to see that and all the proof you need is already here. Have fun bud, apologies for any hurt feelings, you are one of my absolute favorites but I can't hardly agree with this level of ****** even to fold out of respect. It's too ****ing dumb. There's a quote inside that source. In the quote reads something about color line. You are ignoring the quote while claiming it's me ignoring anything. I have accepted absolutely ever element of the sources. You have not. Period. Dance a ****** dance all you like bro, just makes you dumb.

[JAB5239]

Yes, you are quoting a source. that source quotes a source.

Think what you like but the fact that you are quoting the portion you like from the source while ignoring the only quote that source sources from its primary is not beyond your comprehension and I know it.


It's more than one newspaper. You are not too ****** to see that and all the proof you need is already here. Have fun bud, apologies for any hurt feelings, you are one of my absolute favorites but I can't hardly agree with this level of ****** even to fold out of respect. It's too ****ing dumb. There's a quote inside that source. In the quote reads something about color line. You are ignoring the quote while claiming it's me ignoring anything. I have accepted absolutely ever element of the sources. You have not. Period. Dance a ****** dance all you like bro, just makes you dumb.

Lol, there aren't any hard feelings nor hurt ones. I still respect you as well, but we're probably not going to find common ground here. You interpret what we have to work with your way, and I'll interpret it my way.

[QueensburyRules]

After reading through the content from both sides of the argument, it seems clear to me that Greb did use the color-line, but only in this specific instance. He's agreeing to fight any other White fighter, but declining to fight a Black fighter because he's Black. I mean...that's what the color-line was, right?

Was he concerned about race wars...? When it comes to these type of scenarios, I believe there is only one reason the color-line was used. It's not because these guys are afraid of other boxers, per se. I do believe that they are afraid of how they would be perceived if they lose to a Black fighter. Greb at least apparently didn't worry about this at other times in his career. Only he can tell us why this particular time he wanted to use the color-line. Personally, I'm not buying it was because he was afraid of a race war. Maybe his woman was really in his ear at this particular point in his career. I don't know

- - Did Greb actually say he won't fight a black fighter, or did the yellow journalism of the day make up a porkie?

Every fighter has a ton of fighters he won't fight because of legit circumstances.

[travestyny]

- - Did Greb actually say he won't fight a black fighter, or did the yellow journalism of the day make up a porkie?

Every fighter has a ton of fighters he won't fight because of legit circumstances.

Multiple sources are pointing to something like what this one says:

"Greb, later that evening, explained to the press and promoters the promise he had made to his wife. This seems to be the real sticking point because Greb offered to fight any other white fighter regardless of weight but none could be found"

If he was offering to fight any White boxer, but not Gans, then it's certain it was Gans' skin tone that disqualified him.

[JAB5239]

Multiple sources are pointing to something like what this one says:



If he was offering to fight any White boxer, but not Gans, then it's certain it was Gans' skin tone that disqualified him.

But why? I think that question is answered with the riots and his wife's concern of them morr than any fear or bias of ANY black fighters as he went on to continue fighter other (better) black fighters.

[travestyny]

But why? I think that question is answered with the riots and his wife's concern of them morr than any fear or bias of ANY black fighters as he went on to continue fighter other (better) black fighters.

Oh I definitely agree with you. I don't think he feared any boxer. And since he fought Black boxers after this point, I don't think he even had a fear of having people turn on him if he lost to a Black fighter. That's why I mentioned maybe his wife really was able to get into his head at this time. As for her reasons for not wanting him to fight a Black fighter, your guess is as good as mine. It may have very well been for a fear of riots.

Ultimately it's his decision. It just seems that factually he decided to avoid the Black fighter in this particular instance. But I'm personally not comfortable going farther than that and claiming why he did so. Plus, personally, any negative that may come from his actions in this instance drawing the color-line during this charity event is outweighed by him obviously not drawing the color-line otherwise in his career.


Honestly, I think it's much ado about nothing. Mache just likes to ruffle some feathers.

[Marchegiano]

Oh I definitely agree with you. I don't think he feared any boxer. And since he fought Black boxers after this point, I don't think he even had a fear of having people turn on him if he lost to a Black fighter. That's why I mentioned maybe his wife really was able to get into his head at this time. As for her reasons for not wanting him to fight a Black fighter, your guess is as good as mine. It may have very well been for a fear of riots.

Ultimately it's his decision. It just seems that factually he decided to avoid the Black fighter in this particular instance. But I'm personally not comfortable going farther than that and claiming why he did so. Plus, personally, any negative that may come from his actions in this instance drawing the color-line during this charity event is outweighed by him obviously not drawing the color-line otherwise in his career.


Honestly, I think it's much ado about nothing. Mache just likes to ruffle some feathers.

I don't hide or deny my *******ry but that's about all I did. I posted a contemporary source, stood my ground, and was an ******* about it.


Point being is if it was nothing it would not have taken five pages, two contemporary sources with a secondary source to verify at least one of them, three different IBRO cosigns, and a respected mild mannered poster's verdict to get some level of acceptance.


Which mind, Jab thinks he's detracting from by wondering and musing on Greb's motivations.


Title of the thread says dude drew the color line. What I stood my ground on was dude drew the color line. Late replacement, wife excuse doe, Willie was a mistake, don't really care. I rolled my eyes at that weak ass excuse and that was it.




You haven't been here very much lately so you might have missed it, but, basically, it all goes back to Nat Fleischer being a ****ty historian and the vehement protection the narratives he left receives.




That is to say, I didn't say it's a big deal. I repeatedly said it shouldn't be a big deal but grown ass men have little boys emotions tied to lies.




The god-like legacy of Harry Greb is less God-like and more human if you actually take the time to look. - That message should be more like a duh, whatever bro, quit wasting my time. Not five pages of crying denial like children.



ruffle ruffle, but really this post, this whole thread should be boring, nonpoint, nothing to see here. The only thing on display is the reaction to a piece of his history more validated than most of his record.