Jack Johnson Admits He Was Genuinely KO'd

[billeau2]

That's the difference with Johnson and Dempsey. Johnson fought the middleweight champion and Dempsey didn't (Greb)

? And? Lets not belabor the obvious, Ketchel, a great fighter was no Greb (stated on the thread) and this statement is the equivalent of saying "My car mechanic is inferior because he wouldn't work on my Ducati.

[solidman]

? And? Lets not belabor the obvious, Ketchel, a great fighter was no Greb (stated on the thread) and this statement is the equivalent of saying "My car mechanic is inferior because he wouldn't work on my Ducati.

I get your point, but Dempsey should definitely have fought Greb.

[billeau2]

I get your point, but Dempsey should definitely have fought Greb.

YOu keep saying that. I assume it is because Greb was excellent but I question how this in itself should make a heavyweight face a middle weight. To be fair you are not alone in that opinion. I believe Clompton (sp?) was adament about this. He wrote a book about it. I just do not see the logic anymore than saying Dempsey should have fought Hank Armstrong, or Ray Robinson.

With Tunney it is a different situation because Tunney was a light heavy. The difference in weight and size was negligable. Tunney was in fact a greater light heavy than heavyweight. But you are entitled to your opinion.

[JAB5239]

YOu keep saying that. I assume it is because Greb was excellent but I question how this in itself should make a heavyweight face a middle weight. To be fair you are not alone in that opinion. I believe Clompton (sp?) was adament about this. He wrote a book about it. I just do not see the logic anymore than saying Dempsey should have fought Hank Armstrong, or Ray Robinson.

With Tunney it is a different situation because Tunney was a light heavy. The difference in weight and size was negligable. Tunney was in fact a greater light heavy than heavyweight. But you are entitled to your opinion.

I will respectfully disagree. If you beat all the men that were granted title shots should you not be granted one yourself?! Pep has put forth arguments based on money. I can see that point but cannot fully accept it. Maybe in time. My point is if greb beat all these guys than why is Dempsey fighting him and not Greb? Middleweights, lightheavyweights.....Greb was beating them all.....heavyweights included. I've always wondered if they were good enough to fight after losing to Greb, than why not Harry himself?

[solidman]

YOu keep saying that. I assume it is because Greb was excellent but I question how this in itself should make a heavyweight face a middle weight. To be fair you are not alone in that opinion. I believe Clompton (sp?) was adament about this. He wrote a book about it. I just do not see the logic anymore than saying Dempsey should have fought Hank Armstrong, or Ray Robinson.

With Tunney it is a different situation because Tunney was a light heavy. The difference in weight and size was negligable. Tunney was in fact a greater light heavy than heavyweight. But you are entitled to your opinion.

Like Jabs5239 pointed out - Greb beat many of the leading heavyweights of the day. Also Dempsey didn't have many challengers at heavyweight. Instead of taking 2 years out and then 3 years out don't you think he could have fought Greb?

[Willie Pep 229]

It is prize fighting. No money no fight. Show us the money then you can say Dempsey had an obligation to fight Greb.

I guess none of us will let it go. lol

[billeau2]

It is prize fighting. No money no fight. Show us the money then you can say Dempsey had an obligation to fight Greb.

I guess none of us will let it go. lol

Greb was a terror I can understand why the fight was considered, I just happen to disagree about Dempsey being obligated. Also at that time there was less of a solid line regarding weight classes... I had not considered the financial incentives lol.

[solidman]

I don't understand why there was no money in the fight. It would have been two great fighters going at it.

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't understand why there was no money in the fight. It would have been two great fighters going at it.

Greb became "greater" than he actually was because he had the good fortune to die young.

When Greb fought the blown-up WW Micky Walker, Greb was only a slight favorite and Walker took him the distance.

Most people didn't think Greb a serious challenge to Dempsey, and the limited interest resulted in limited money being avaiable.

If the interest was there the money would have been there (and Tex Rickard would have found it.)

Harry Greb then, was not the lesser-god he has been made into, especially on this forum.

P.S. All the pro-Greb vs. Dempsey noise of the period, was driven by Greb's people, Floyd Fitzsimmons in particular. But the newspaper guys were never all in. The newspaper guys were calling for the Wills fight.

[BKM-]

Greb became "greater" than he actually was because he had the good fortune to die young.

When Greb fought the blown-up WW Micky Walker, Greb was only a slight favorite and Walker took him the distance.

Most people didn't think Greb a serious challenge to Dempsey, and the limited interest resulted in limited money being avaiable.

If the interest was there the money would have been there (and Tex Rickard would have found it.)

Harry Greb then, was not the lesser-god he has been made into, especially on this forum.

P.S. All the pro-Greb vs. Dempsey noise of the period, was driven by Greb's people, Floyd Fitzsimmons in particular. But the newspaper guys were never all in. The newspaper guys were calling for the Wills fight.

I agree. Dempsey has slowly turned into "just another ATG HW". But at the time during his peak he was a mega star the likes we have not seen too many of since.