How about a list of draws from fighters?

[Dr Z]

Carlos Monzon had 9 he must have been rubbish too.lol This thread is just another blatant attempt to disparage Jack Johnson.
Haters got to hate.

Draws were endemic in South America those days! Mind your P's and Q's and you'll be okay in this thread. This shall be a test and you have failed to do so recently.

[JAB5239]

I count 53 draws for Sam - but I see, you're not counting ND/Newspaper decision fights for him (or any of the other boxers you have mentioned). Just curious to know why?

I waa only using boxrec to make a point.

[JAB5239]

Draws were endemic in South America those days! Mind your P's and Q's and you'll be okay in this thread. This shall be a test and you have failed to do so recently.

And draws were endemic in the early 1900's in America. What's your point?

[Bronson66]

Draws were endemic in South America those days! Mind your P's and Q's and you'll be okay in this thread. This shall be a test and you have failed to do so recently.

I and others put you straight on Draws in Argentina previously,you claimed Monzon wasnt anything special because he had a series of them,being unaware that if there was no clear winner officials routinely gave draws .
If you want to dispute this we can easily scroll back and prove it! and your ignorance of the custom.

Now lets get to the subject!

This is what you claim.

1. John "Jack" Nelson - January 27, 1899
   • Result: Draw (5 rounds)
   • Notes: Early in his career, fought in Chicago.
2. Hank Griffin - October 27, 1902
   • Result: Draw (20 rounds)
   • Notes: A rematch with Griffin in Los Angeles ended in a draw.
3. Billy Jordan - July 17, 1903
   • Result: Draw (10 rounds)
   • Notes: Fought in Philadelphia.

1. Jack "Twin" Sullivan - November 27, 1905
   • Result: Draw (10 rounds)
   • Notes: A competitive bout in Denver, Colorado.
2. Joe Butler - October 8, 1906
   • Result: Draw (10 rounds)
   • Notes: Fought in Philadelphia.
3. Jim Johnson - December 10, 1906
   • Result: Draw (6 rounds)
   • Notes: In Gloucester, Massachusetts.
4. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien - May 8, 1909
   • Result: Draw (6 rounds)
   • Notes: An exhibition-style bout in Philadelphia against the middleweight star.
5. Jack Johnson (Battling Jim Johnson) - December 19, 1913
   • Result: Draw (10 rounds)
   • Notes: A controversial heavyweight title defense in Paris against another fighter named Johnson; some criticized it as lackluster

Most of these draw were vs. so-so fighters to put if kindly. Does a great fighter draw so often? I think Jack was lucky on some draws.Quote



1 .John Jack Nelson .Show us a primary source that supports your contention that Johnson drew with John Jack Nelson in1899, or any other time?
Neither Pollack,Box Rec or CBZ list this fight, nor is it in Unforgiveable Blackness, or Papa Jack.

Produce a primary source that proves it happened?

3.Billy Jordan? For your information,Jordan was a famous ring announcer.In fact he was the announcer for the Johnson v Jeffries fight!LOL

Jordan announcing Johnson at Reno1910

4.Jack Twin Sullivan never fought Johnson in1905 or any other time.

5.Joe Butler DID fight Johnson but NOT IN1906,IN1903 and Johnson ko'd him in3 rounds!

6.Jim Johnson there is no record of Jack Johnson fighting a Jim Johnson,again produce a primary source for this Jim Johnson fight?

7.Jack O Brien this was officially a 6 rounds no decision fight.You do know what NO DECISION means don't you?It means no official decision is given.

8.Jack Johnson and Battling JimJohnson went 10rds to a draw,the champion had broken his arm in the 3rd round.

PS When you set out to assassinate a fighters record its advisable to get your facts straight! Otherwise you just end up looking like a foolish ,agenda driven , hater! As you have here!

[QueensburyRules]

So let's talk about Jeffries draw against Choynski who he outweighed by over 50lbs. Isn't that the same guy Johnson stopped less than 3 years later? My point being there are all sorts of reasons for draws. You seem to want to focus as much negativity on Johnson as you can though. This is just another bait thread, and it's old, and it will probably get deleted like your other Johnson thread because you refuse to have a productive conversation when it comes to old JJ.

- - JJohnson was splattered into splottoblivian by 165lb Choynski in the 3rd round before they got tossed in the clink...

Yer welcome...
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSG6o0bZVEYqaG9liaQr5onmn3PbTFFwBNTyQ&s.jpg

[mattdonnellon]

The Johnson-Scanlan draw, from "The Encyclopaedia of Irish Heavyweights";
"Scanlan's battle with Jack Johnson on January 14th at Bernau's Gym, Galveston elicited different reports. "The contest...ended in the seventh and was quite a disappointment to the crowd of about 500 people who witnessed it. The contest was stopped on account of the tactics used by the participants and the referee refused to render a decision." That was the version in "The Houston Post". Apparently, the referee later told "The Galveston Daily News" that he ruled the fight a draw.
A wire report had a different angle; "the referee announced that the sheriff who was present, commanded him to declare the fight off. It was well for Scanlan that he did, as the negro outpointed and outfought him at every stage of the game and had Scanlan very groggy and nearly out. Scanlan was badly punished, while Johnson was not disfigured and but slightly winded. The announcement of the sheriff's interference is generally believed to have been a ruse to save Scanlan from being bested by a negro, as no arrests followed."

[Marchegiano]

Dave Shade boxed during the era of the 4 rounder in Cali. Making his 60+ draw count on points rather than stipulation.

A lot of draws were stuff like if X doesn't KO Y and youse know this. Newspaper decisions I am unsure why those are a sometimes record thing in the first place but whatever that reasoning is this is points by judges.

[Bronson66]

The Johnson-Scanlan draw, from "The Encyclopaedia of Irish Heavyweights";
"Scanlan's battle with Jack Johnson on January 14th at Bernau's Gym, Galveston elicited different reports. "The contest...ended in the seventh and was quite a disappointment to the crowd of about 500 people who witnessed it. The contest was stopped on account of the tactics used by the participants and the referee refused to render a decision." That was the version in "The Houston Post". Apparently, the referee later told "The Galveston Daily News" that he ruled the fight a draw.
A wire report had a different angle; "the referee announced that the sheriff who was present, commanded him to declare the fight off. It was well for Scanlan that he did, as the negro outpointed and outfought him at every stage of the game and had Scanlan very groggy and nearly out. Scanlan was badly punished, while Johnson was not disfigured and but slightly winded. The announcement of the sheriff's interference is generally believed to have been a ruse to save Scanlan from being bested by a negro, as no arrests followed."

In" Jack Johnson The Rise," Pollack has the fight as follows;
" Originally called a No Contest,the referee subsequently called it a draw.He had terminated the bout early owing to excessive fouling.Regardless Johnson was the superior fighter."

[Bronson66]

- - JJohnson was splattered into splottoblivian by 165lb Choynski in the 3rd round before they got tossed in the clink...

Yer welcome...
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSG6o0bZVEYqaG9liaQr5onmn3PbTFFwBNTyQ&s.jpg

Neither Choynski or Johnson weighed in for that fight,but a comparison of their available weights at the time indicate there was little weight disparity between the two.

[Bundana]

Dave Shade boxed during the era of the 4 rounder in Cali. Making his 60+ draw count on points rather than stipulation.

A lot of draws were stuff like if X doesn't KO Y and youse know this. Newspaper decisions I am unsure why those are a sometimes record thing in the first place but whatever that reasoning is this is points by judges.

I'm not sure, what you mean by this? Are you saying, that ND fights should be disregarded and not counted, when we discuss boxing records?