Most Feared HW

[Mr Mitts]

Liston
Foreman
Tyson

Frank Bruno looked really tough until he got in the ring...lol.

You got them in the right order, glare for glare. With Marciano it might take a 2nd fight to get really scared. I believe they would at least be concerned more than normal if fighting him again.

[Anomalocaris]

And what could make Liston uncomfortable. Only a lunatic.
Ali’s performance at the weigh-in 1964 should have won him an Oscar.

Yes it was genius.

Ali"s 'bear hunting' made Sonny doubt his sanity although Ali came unstuck in that casino incident.

I actually think prime for prime (without Mafia or Nation of Islam 'influence') it would have been close perhaps about 9 - 6 rounds for Ali.

Liston at his best was utterly devastating.

[billeau2]

Yes it was genius.

Ali"s 'bear hunting' made Sonny doubt his sanity although Ali came unstuck in that casino incident.

I actually think prime for prime (without Mafia or Nation of Islam 'influence') it would have been close perhaps about 9 - 6 rounds for Ali.

Liston at his best was utterly devastating.

Different fight prime for prime... Ali was great, a king among kings, but when the Good Lord was asked to make a heavyweight... perfection in all aspects... Liston came out of the oven: Big strong hands and shoulders, a pole axe for an extended arm, two tree trunks for legs with quick feet to make them yield like a willow, a neck and head made to take blows... Just enough size, not an once too much, too little... And then the psychological aspects! A man who always wanted to leave the ring early, methodical footwork, quickness, not speed! refined, technically developed sharp, accurate technique with no wasted movements.

Ibuechi had a similar physical profile as Liston... Few other men did.

[billeau2]

Yes it was genius.

Ali"s 'bear hunting' made Sonny doubt his sanity although Ali came unstuck in that casino incident.

I actually think prime for prime (without Mafia or Nation of Islam 'influence') it would have been close perhaps about 9 - 6 rounds for Ali.

Liston at his best was utterly devastating.

Great posts! Great description. If one looks at the tree of lineal and other known great heavyweight champions in the division it becomes apparent that many great heavies did not have the benefit of great competition. However, when we look at film and the actual tangible skills observed against an average opponent, we get another meaningful measure of skill and ability. Liston faced quality fighters, the proof is in what one observes watching a match. His dominance was real. He truly was devastating.

[Anomalocaris]

Great posts! Great description. If one looks at the tree of lineal and other known great heavyweight champions in the division it becomes apparent that many great heavies did not have the benefit of great competition. However, when we look at film and the actual tangible skills observed against an average opponent, we get another meaningful measure of skill and ability. Liston faced quality fighters, the proof is in what one observes watching a match. His dominance was real. He truly was devastating.

That awesome battering ram of a jab was truly a thing of brutal beauty.

[billeau2]

That awesome battering ram of a jab was truly a thing of brutal beauty.

When we look at the jab, a punch developed from the lead, Johnson first started to introduce the additional range, the pronation, and other aspects that increased the utility of the lead, culminating in the jab. Of course the heavyweight being the benchmark division gets the credit for such evolutions, but it is still a credible way to look at the development of technique. For example, Gans was instrumental in developing the punching dynamics later written about by Jack Dempsey... At least Jack said as much.

Liston may have been one of the first fighters to use the jab as a pole axe type of attack. Previously the success of the jab usually involved the timing, economy of movement, and incorporation into various combinations... Joe Louis type insights. Since Liston we see fighters like Lennox Lewis, Razor Ruddock (among others) variate the flicking attack with the pole axe variation. So Liston may have been an innovator for this approach.

[them_apples]

You got them in the right order, glare for glare. With Marciano it might take a 2nd fight to get really scared. I believe they would at least be concerned more than normal if fighting him again.

Marciano scared you because he actually hurt you. He was a sociopath just like his father. He wasn’t trying to be scary - he was just a machine and legitimately tried to kill you. He was equally as hard on himself as he was on others.

watch his interview talking about Carmine Vingo. He tries to be polite about it but his tone of voice and expression betray his words.

then look at the folks Marciano hung around with. Today they would be considered serial killers.

as for intimidation though - likely Liston. But we won’t ever know really.

[Bronson66]

You got them in the right order, glare for glare. With Marciano it might take a 2nd fight to get really scared. I believe they would at least be concerned more than normal if fighting him again.

Charles called for a second fight with Marciano,immediately after the 1 st one.However I think the 1 st one ruined him.

[Bronson66]

Marciano scared you because he actually hurt you. He was a sociopath just like his father. He wasnâÃÂÃÂt trying to be scary - he was just a machine and legitimately tried to kill you. He was equally as hard on himself as he was on others.

watch his interview talking about Carmine Vingo. He tries to be polite about it but his tone of voice and expression betray his words.

then look at the folks Marciano hung around with. Today they would be considered serial killers.

as for intimidation though - likely Liston. But we wonâÂÂt ever know really.

What evidence is there that Marciano was a sociopath?

First hand accounts of those that met him paint a picture of a soft spoken, amiable ,modest, man, unless you crossed him over money.

Marciano's Father was a small, mild mannered, self effacing man,who melted into the back ground.
There is zero evidence he was a sociopath.

Marciano was devastated by the Vingo fight.

Marciano hung around with Italian /American businessman who could do him some financial good, and were prepared to foot the bill for his pleasures, and travelling, in return for the hubris of being in his company and calling him a friend.

Your imaginative fantasizing about Marciano knows no bounds!

[QueensburyRules]

I like to refer to these guys as "U Guys" -- fighters who for one (short) period where (foolishly) thought unbeatable. These were the fighters who were actually feared and sometimes you could see it.

Sullivan
Jeffries
Dempsey
Louis
Liston
Ali
Foreman
Tyson

Of course no one could live up to the rep; they were all human.


Please note, this is 'them, at the time thinking it.' That's why Marciano and Johnson are not on the list. Because people, for whatever reason, at the time, believed them beatable.

For all his KOs I don't think Rocky was ever feared (by a top fighter). I think they all thought they could beat him.

I think Rid**** Bowe would have attained the moniker as a 'U Guy' if he had beaten Holyfield in the rematch. But the 'unbeatable' period was too short.

Lewis fails my list because he was taken down early in his career and despite the subsequent domination was still seen as beatable.

Being seen as beatable makes it damn near impossible to strike fear in an opponent (top opponent.) These are difficult men to terrorize.

But Tyson, sure did, for a while. Dempsey too.

Either of the Brothers K, Nah!

The V brother gotten beaten early by a 'homie from the Detroit hood.' The W brother was taken out by a homie from the Indianapolis hood.

If you ain't scaring the neighborhood, you ain't scaring top fighters.

- - Vit was genuinely frightening with a look that would shyte a mass murderer one on one with no weapons.

You're ignoring that both Ks turned pro with their ama trainer with little insight into the dirty officiating and boxing tricks used by pros. They adjusted quite nicely with one essentially tying Louis record and the other retiring Lewis 3 yrs earlier than Lewie planned.

For me, Tyson was both frightening in and out of the ring. It's a wonder he didn't kill someone out of the ring. Dempsey a rare gentleman out of the ring, yet frightening in the Ring after the Willard fight.