Tunney & Louis

[Dr Z]

Simply stated Tunney feet, reach, and defense were too good for Louis who definitely struggled to look good vs. boxer types. And that is an understatement. For those who don't buy into this statement, check the official score cards vs Schmeling, Conn, Chalres and Walcott. The best boxers Louis faced. They had good feet as Tunney did too.


Tunney's chin and stamina were very good to excellent making the possibility of a come from behind Ko unlikely. And his ring IQ was also excellent.

Tunney UD 10 rounds to 5 is my call.

Louis beat:
Walcott
Ramage
Pastor
Nova
Bivins
Agramonte
Farr
All good boxers, why didn't they beat him?

How many punchers did Tunney face?

Tunney and Louis had the same 76in reach

None of those guys were in the same class as I mentioned above save Walcott. Look up the score cards in those two fights. Why don't you? Remember there was controversy in the first fight where Louis was floored twice and got it handed to him based on the given film I have seen. Yet he won the " decision " and the crowd booed the decision louly.

[JAB5239]

Simply stated Tunney feet, reach, and defense were too good for Louis who definitely struggled to look good vs. boxer types. And that is an understatement. For those who don't buy into this statement, check the official score cards vs Schmeling, Conn, Chalres and Walcott. The best boxers Louis faced. They had good feet as Tunney did too.


Tunney's chin and stamina were very good to excellent making the possibility of a come from behind Ko unlikely. And his ring IQ was also excellent.

Tunney UD 10 rounds to 5 is my call.







None of those guys were in the same class as I mentioned above save Walcott. Look up the score cards in those two fights. Why don't you? Remember there was controversy in the first fight where Louis was floored twice and got it handed to him based on the given film I have seen. Yet he won the " decision " and the crowd booed the decision louly.

Jimmy Bivins would certainly be in that class in my opinion. Very underrated. His resume is excellent.

[Bronson66]

Simply stated Tunney feet, reach, and defense were too good for Louis who definitely struggled to look good vs. boxer types. And that is an understatement. For those who don't buy into this statement, check the official score cards vs Schmeling, Conn, Chalres and Walcott. The best boxers Louis faced. They had good feet as Tunney did too.


Tunney's chin and stamina were very good to excellent making the possibility of a come from behind Ko unlikely. And his ring IQ was also excellent.

Tunney UD 10 rounds to 5 is my call.







None of those guys were in the same class as I mentioned above save Walcott. Look up the score cards in those two fights. Why don't you? Remember there was controversy in the first fight where Louis was floored twice and got it handed to him based on the given film I have seen. Yet he won the " decision " and the crowd booed the decision louly.

Q. How many men beat Louis in 69 fights?
A. 3. Schmeling when Joe was young and overconfident.Charles when Louis was coming back from over 2 years retirement.Marciano, when he was totally finished.
You're a fool.

"Mendoza can do what he likes on Boxing Scene. Let's not let the horrendous mistake I made in bringing him back spoil any more threads."

Matt McGrain ESB Jan 25th 2023.

Tell us again about the record 120 punches Wilder landed in the 1st round of the 2nd Ortiz fight? LOL


Official Box Stats. Wilder threw 31 punches in that 1 st round and landed just 3 .1 jab and 2 power punches!

[Dr Z]

Jimmy Bivins would certainly be in that class in my opinion. Very underrated. His resume is excellent.

I view him a step below Schmeiling, Conn, Walcott and Charles. Bivins lost 26times. He isn't in the same class of those guy I mentioned who out boxed Louis.

On a side note he lived long time ( 2012 death ) and might have had some good interviews in boxing. He fought them all regardless of color or style.

[Bronson66]

I view him a step below Schmeiling, Conn, Walcott and Charles. Bivins lost 26times. He isn't in the same class of those guy I mentioned who out boxed Louis.

On a side note he lived long time ( 2012 death ) and might have had some good interviews in boxing. He fought them all regardless of color or style.

Bivins lost 25 times 9 of those losses came in the 50's when Biivins had slipped out of the ratings,and had been fighting 10 years or more. Charles had25 losses too
Walcott18.

Bivins beat;
Agramonte
Maxim
Bettina
Henry
DeJohn
Sheppard
Lesnevich
Pastor
Mauriello
Thompson
Murray
Williams
Wallace
Payne
Knox
Walker

Bivins was a talented battler who came to fight; At his heaviest, he was essentially a "beefed-up" light-heavyweight who tangled with the best of the big men - fighting champions and top contenders on a regular basis during his fifteen year career
Jimmy defeated such men as Joey Maxim, Bob Pastor, Tami Mauriello, Clarence Henry, Gus Lesnevich, Melio Bettina, Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Billy Soose, Anton Christoforidis, Teddy Yarosz, Lee Savold, Pat Valentino, Lee Q. Murray, "Oakland" Billy Smith, Booker Beckwith, Buddy Scott, Jack "Buddy" Walker, Yancey Henry, Albert "Turkey" Thompson, Johnny Haynes, Willie Bean, Rusty Payne, Leonard Morrow and Coley Wallace

Herb Goldman ranked Bivins as the #8 All-Time Light-Heavyweight; He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1999
Conn and Schmeling would have had their work cut out to beat a prime Jimmy Bivins.

Walcott only beat him on a split decision.
Bivins was down for an 8-count in round three. The official scoring was 6-4 for Bivins 9-1 for Walcott, and 5-4-1 for Bivins but the official with that scorecard gave the decision to Walcott because of the knockdown. .

[Mr Mitts]

Louis did not overtrain for Conn he dried out too much trying to get below 200lbs.Conn was thoroughly washed up in the rematch.

Kearns never trained Dempsey,or anyone else.Jimmy DeForest was Dempsey's trainer.

Still, he could only melt himself down to 202 but had the pull to get himself announced at 199, is what I once read. Do you know if that is all true? Weight given by ring announcer is indeed 199.

Tunney had a far greater ring IQ than Conn, one can immediately see. Throughout the fight Conn gets inside with Joe and stays too long, sometimes far too long. Name the boxing tool and Gene is better at it than Conn--power, feet, ring IQ, jab, stamina--Gene's are all superior. Conn is only an inferior carbon copy of Tunney.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3UnRVEWfoM

[Biledriver]

Louis beat:
Walcott
Ramage
Pastor
Nova
Bivins
Agramonte
Farr
All good boxers, why didn't they beat him?

Because it wrecks his narrative if he had to answer that honestly. Which he won't do.

[Willie Pep 229]

My gut reaction . . .

Tunney had the skills to beat (U15) Louis once. The next fight won't be as easy, and in multiple fights Louis would come out on top.

Tunney had (the 1926 version of) Dempsey's number and would have beaten him six out of seven times.

But Louis would be different.

Dempsey is a better boxer than he is remembered, because of all the brawls he doesn't get much boxing creds.

But still overall, Louis was a better boxer than Dempsey and would likely be able in a trilogy to adjust to Tunney, and maybe even eventually hunt him down.

The first time out, I can see Tunney winning a decision from Louis. If Tunney could (and I think he could have) have boxed his way to the 13th round, he would never have thrown it away like Conn did.

P.S. I like to point out that Conn entering the 13th with Louis still had to win one more round to win the title.

Conn still had to fight, he couldn't coast the last three rounds. He doesn't win the title if he does.

[Willie Pep 229]

Louis's backhanded compliment and wonderful wit.

Billy Conn telling the story . . .

CONN: "Joe, you coulda let me win the title. I coulda ran down to the corner and told the guys 'Hey I'm heavyweight champion of the world.' Then you coulda won it back from me in six months.

LOUIS: "You had it for 12 rounds, how were you gonna hold it for six months?"

[Mr Mitts]

It does not merely take a good boxer to beat Louis. The boxer must be a running, moving fighter with high ring IQ, fast educated feet and quick hands with enough punch to discourage Louis and and maybe KO him with a combination, also plenty of tools and intangibles, which reads like Gene Tunney in words.

Sure, Schmeling was a good boxer but not a runner. We want Louis of the second Conn anyway, and Tunney of the first Dempsey.

Before the first fight Schmeling told reporters in German accent, "I see somesing, but I won't tell." The version of Louis we are using vs Tunney will no longer have that flaw. I don't believe it would change the outcome vs Tunney anyway.

Unless Bivins et al and the others named in the Rocky-Tunney opponents vs opponents thread were fast runners and boxers of high talent and very durable besides, which I cannot say, they as good as didn't belong in the ring with Joe anyway, pathetically but realistically, even if they could score a flash KD now and then, which he proved multiple times in his career. But the fact that a few of them could does not augur well for him vs Gene, who would know exactly how to proceed, unlike a two ton Tony. Multiple series of brief combinations until his ring instinct tells him it is time to move in and finish. Otherwise he will proceed with appropriate pace and level of caution. Gene is smart enough in any situation short of unconsciousness to make good decisions, as he proved in 2nd Dempsey. You think he didn't?

The only man(?) who could disbelieve the last two sentences is already here, and of course insisting apparently that Tunney was too paralyzed to move, though he had already moved, correcting the awkward positioning of his right knee and repositioning his left knee to rise, all before the official count began. At count 3 he moved his gaze directly at the ref. Then he is aware enough to look around, clearing his head, before he springs up like a mule deer, barely beating the count.

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