Does anyone still think the old time heavyweights were too small to be competitive in the modern era?

[DeeMoney]

Size Matters but skill and ability matter WAY more. and by way more I would reckon with a weight of about 5x.

The size disparity between Joshua and Pacquiao (this is real size, not just one dude putting on weight) means Pacquiao likely can't do much vs Joshua - but make no mistake I also can't see Joshua actually catching Pacquiao. Joshua is not a very good fighter, he's just big. I think Joshua wins a lame, ugly decision over Pacquiao who decides to run circles around him.

If you want a perfect example watch Shaq vs de la hoya and Shane mosely. He staged those bouts against them a while ago. You can see how Shane and DLH's speed and ability are ripping shots left and right off Shaq who can't hit them. However, shaq is too big to take down but too slow to hit them. its common sense really.

Pick a dangerous guy like Joe Louis and put him in w pac though, its lights out. cold.

Had you have picked a better heavyweight, I would have hands down agreed with you. a skilled big man is gonna crush a skilled smaller man.

I know had I picked Louis is would have been an easy decision, thats why I didnt.

Picking AJ allowed us to reach the conclusion that we all agree that size matters, we just differ on how much.

The Shaq Delahoya example is good to show that size alone doesnt win. Luckily, we dont have anyone as inexperienced at boxing as Shaq to argue about in these discussions.

[QueensburyRules]

This observation makes rather a nonsense of claims about Marciano.

- - Y U barfing french snails again?

[them_apples]

I know had I picked Louis is would have been an easy decision, thats why I didnt.

Picking AJ allowed us to reach the conclusion that we all agree that size matters, we just differ on how much.

The Shaq Delahoya example is good to show that size alone doesnt win. Luckily, we dont have anyone as inexperienced at boxing as Shaq to argue about in these discussions.

yeah but whens the last time I said a 126er could take down a 240 lb heavyweight? The extent of my argument is based off of guys who did beat heavyweights while weighing much less, and also just within the actual heavyweight division.

204 lb Louis, with a track record of knocking out men as large as 6 ft 7 245 lbs is not "absurd" to say he can't do it to Wlad or Fury. I am not the only one exaggerating here. considering Marciano was 185 and totally out muscled an older but heavier Louis, should at least bring people to contemplate the idea rather than completely write it off.

[them_apples]

Nobody has ever suggested they were,but that does not mean Marvin Hagler ,at160lbs beats Daniel Dubois.

well Hagler did spar heavyweights. I doubt they were beating the **** out of him

Hagler won't beat Joe Louis or Ali, but Dubois isn't very good. I wouldn't be totally sold on him ****ing up Hagler.

[DeeMoney]

yeah but whens the last time I said a 126er could take down a 240 lb heavyweight? The extent of my argument is based off of guys who did beat heavyweights while weighing much less, and also just within the actual heavyweight division.

204 lb Louis, with a track record of knocking out men as large as 6 ft 7 245 lbs is not "absurd" to say he can't do it to Wlad or Fury. I am not the only one exaggerating here.

No I fully embrace using absurdity and exxageration, but done so only to find common ground.

The discussion had gotten to the point that some were claiming that size was not an advantage at all. I just did what I did so we could all agree that size could be an advantage; we just differ in viewing how much (which is fine, because nie hopefully we can at least have a grown up discussion about it).

Me personally, I usually see the issue as size + style. So many heavyweights for so long have tried to fight big (or at least tall and from the outside). So that they dont, or hadnt shown, know how to get and fight inside against a significantly bigger (and still skilled) fighter. Conversely, so many big heavies, especially now, rarely face skilled fighters who know how to fight inside.

The best example of this is how I percieve a triangle between current Usyk, current Fury, and pre suspension Ali. In my mind this version of Usyk beats this version of Fury 9 times out of 10. As he is big enough to handle Fury's size, but skilled enough to work his way inside.
I think pre suspension, float like a butterfly Ali beats this version of Usy more often than not, as he is a quicker fighter and better at range.

Conversely, I think that version of Ali would struggle more with this version of Fury. Ali in general wants to fight at range, but Fury's size gives him more range than Ali. It would take time for Ali to figure it out, and I dont know if he would.

[Bronson66]

yeah but whens the last time I said a 126er could take down a 240 lb heavyweight? The extent of my argument is based off of guys who did beat heavyweights while weighing much less, and also just within the actual heavyweight division.

204 lb Louis, with a track record of knocking out men as large as 6 ft 7 245 lbs is not "absurd" to say he can't do it to Wlad or Fury. I am not the only one exaggerating here. considering Marciano was 185 and totally out muscled an older but heavier Louis, should at least bring people to contemplate the idea rather than completely write it off.

205lbs and that is not 185lbs.

[them_apples]

205lbs and that is not 185lbs.

but 185 lb Rock Totally out muscled the same 204 lb man.

Now lets just say it's not a fact that Marciano can compete. but do you not see that it isn't absurd to at least give him a chance? to not totally write him off?

[them_apples]

No I fully embrace using absurdity and exxageration, but done so only to find common ground.

The discussion had gotten to the point that some were claiming that size was not an advantage at all. I just did what I did so we could all agree that size could be an advantage; we just differ in viewing how much (which is fine, because nie hopefully we can at least have a grown up discussion about it).

Me personally, I usually see the issue as size + style. So many heavyweights for so long have tried to fight big (or at least tall and from the outside). So that they dont, or hadnt shown, know how to get and fight inside against a significantly bigger (and still skilled) fighter. Conversely, so many big heavies, especially now, rarely face skilled fighters who know how to fight inside.

The best example of this is how I percieve a triangle between current Usyk, current Fury, and pre suspension Ali. In my mind this version of Usyk beats this version of Fury 9 times out of 10. As he is big enough to handle Fury's size, but skilled enough to work his way inside.
I think pre suspension, float like a butterfly Ali beats this version of Usy more often than not, as he is a quicker fighter and better at range.

Conversely, I think that version of Ali would struggle more with this version of Fury. Ali in general wants to fight at range, but Fury's size gives him more range than Ali. It would take time for Ali to figure it out, and I dont know if he would.

style is extremely important. I won't argue with this

[Biledriver]

And there’s the rub.

How many of the modern day big men are more skilled than the great smaller men of the past?

Easy answer: None. Lennox was the last skilled heavyweight.

[Anomalocaris]

Easy answer: None. Lennox was the last skilled heavyweight.

I disagree both the brothers and a prime Fury were very skilled.

Usyk whilst not a true super-heavy is absolutely superb.