Weakest HW Champ Of Them All

[QueensburyRules]

Where do you rank Holmes on your all time top 10 heavyweights list? Oh that's right, you don't have one!

- - I've put Lar around the 19-20 mark any would know from my presence on this forum. Took forever to win the illicit title and was never more than a single belt holder in a storied era of single belt holding champs. Lineal Loons like U rate him because he beat retired Ali who was so weak then half the kid sisters in America could've whooped him.

[billeau2]

People hit all the high notes... I would have to go with Martin all things being somewhat equal... Canera was not really that bad, just was not that good.

[max baer]

all the whites who drew the colour line and dodged jack johnson. That Burns fella for example. Johnson followed him around the world on ships to australia and in the end he was offered so much money he had to take the johnson fight or he'd have to admit he was coward. all those men were weak champions. what say you???

[JAB5239]

- - I've put Lar around the 19-20 mark any would know from my presence on this forum. Took forever to win the illicit title and was never more than a single belt holder in a storied era of single belt holding champs. Lineal Loons like U rate him because he beat retired Ali who was so weak then half the kid sisters in America could've whooped him.

Lmao.....no wonder you won't post you list!!

[Marchegiano]

all the whites who drew the colour line and dodged jack johnson. That Burns fella for example. Johnson followed him around the world on ships to australia and in the end he was offered so much money he had to take the johnson fight or he'd have to admit he was coward. all those men were weak champions. what say you???

I agree, personally I struggle to see the HW champions of the whites from BE and the USA as legitimate world HW champions.


Lineage, sure, but no one calls Figg a world champion. Mendoza, Cribb, etc. all important figures leading up to the world title but not world figures and that's cool with everyone. Dempsey, Jeffries, Fitzs, I get why they have fans. They were fantastic for their time in their little tiny baby pool of talent but to pretend like the scope of boxing was global is a lie. I don't see why we don't be honest about the early "world" champions and put them into their own category not unlike how we have BK and LPRR champions. They were intercontinental white champions.

IMO, the true world title was not established until the colored title was made defunct by Joe Louis.

[Willie Pep 229]

To say they were not champions!

Do you guys apply your same color line disparagement to the baseball greats as well?

Because, by your standards, we have to throw out the entire early history of American sport championships.

Seems to me a silly way to approach history.

[Biledriver]

To say they were not champions!

Do you guys apply your same color line disparagement to the baseball greats as well?

Because, by your standards, we have to throw out the entire early history of American sport championships.

Seems to me a silly way to approach history.

I say this with all respect, and not trying to be flip or pedantic. Champions, yes. But not WORLD champions, as the color-line (including Johnson's own) would seem to me make for unfought claimants which brings any claim to a title having world status into dispute. I would apply this to baseball as well (and MLB now recognizes the N*gro Leagues as legitimate major leagues).

[Biledriver]

I agree, personally I struggle to see the HW champions of the whites from BE and the USA as legitimate world HW champions.


Lineage, sure, but no one calls Figg a world champion. Mendoza, Cribb, etc. all important figures leading up to the world title but not world figures and that's cool with everyone. Dempsey, Jeffries, Fitzs, I get why they have fans. They were fantastic for their time in their little tiny baby pool of talent but to pretend like the scope of boxing was global is a lie. I don't see why we don't be honest about the early "world" champions and put them into their own category not unlike how we have BK and LPRR champions. They were intercontinental white champions.

IMO, the true world title was not established until the colored title was made defunct by Joe Louis.

I have to agree, and I say that as someone who loves Dempsey and Fitzsimmons and has a ton of respect for Johnson. When Louis put the black championship to bed is when I think the heavyweight title became a WORLD title.

[JAB5239]

I say this with all respect, and not trying to be flip or pedantic. Champions, yes. But not WORLD champions, as the color-line (including Johnson's own) would seem to me makes for unfought claimants which brings any claim to a title having world status into dispute. I would apply this to baseball as well (and MLB now recognizes the N*gro Leagues as legitimate major leagues).

To add to this a bit, one man cannot win a championship in a team sport. But won man can win a world championship in boxing if given the opportunity. I'd have to ponder Peps question a lot more deeply to see where or how exactly it would apply to baseball.

[Mr Mitts]

To add to this a bit, one man cannot win a championship in a team sport. But won man can win a world championship in boxing if given the opportunity. I'd have to ponder Peps question a lot more deeply to see where or how exactly it would apply to baseball.

Ahem! Let me get uncomfortable here.

I was hard on you in another thread for no good reason. I apologize for that. Sometimes people have bad days, sometimes their behavior is inexplicable. I don't know what my excuse is--I usually just call myself an idiot and try to move forward. The deal is I am still going to admire you and value your boxing opinions more actually than my own, since I know yours are more informed. An apology is all I can do at this stage, so now I will move on as if nothing ever happened and you will move on however you wish.