Louis title opponents ranking as of their title shot?

[JAB5239]

I think we are missing a few. Louis defended his title 25 times.

From what I see Simon was rated 4th when he signed to fight Louis the first time. Simon then had several tune up bouts losing a disputed decision just a month or so prior to fighting Louis to an unknown heavyweight.

Johnny Davis was unranked and supposed to be an exhibition that NY changed to a world title fight. Tony Musto, Gus Dorazio, Al McCoy, Johnny Paychek and Harry Thomas were unranked in the top 10 as far as I can tell.

[Bronson66]

Johnny Davis was unranked and supposed to be an exhibition that NY changed to a world title fight. Tony Musto, Gus Dorazio, Al McCoy, Johnny Paychek and Harry Thomas were unranked in the top 10 as far as I can tell.

I think Paychek was Ring ranked. 6?

[Dr. Z]

Tommy Farr #2
Nathan Mann #3
Max Schmeling #1
John Henry Lewis (lightheavy champion)
Tony Galento #4
Bob Pastor #4
Arturo Godoy #2
Red Burman #3
Abe Simon #4
Buddy Bear #6
Billy Conn (lightheavy champion)
Lou Nova #8
Buddy Baer #7
Abe Simon (not sure if top 10 rated at this point)
Billy Conn #1
Tami Mauriello #2
Joe Walcott #1
Joe Walcott #1
Ezzard Charles #1

Best I can tell here. Louis fought the song most top ten fighters at heavyweight with only Ali having one more. These were from his title defenses starting after he wont the title from Braddock until losing to Charles.

Farr won 5-6 rounds in my card.

Schmeling knocked Louis out.

Godoy could have won or drew the first match. Watch and score it your self.

Fat Tony floored Louis as did Buddy Baer.

Conn would have won if the fight was 12 rounds!

Walcott was robbed over 15 rounds.

Charles whipped Louis badly over the distance.


The TRUTH. Louis has his hand full with a bad lot of contenders.

[JAB5239]

I think Paychek was Ring ranked. 6?

I missed that, you're correct. Thank you.

[billeau2]

So where did all this "bum of the month" crap come from? That's an impressive list.

He cleaned up the division before he became champion (save Schmeling) and then looks to have fought the best available once champion.

It seems to me Louis was taking on the best available and making them look like "bums."

Maybe I am being unfair but sometimes I think this Forum underrates Joe Louis.

I know, a funny thing to say out loud.

P.S. I think Ring Mag-azine sees the Louis-Charles go as Louis the challenger and Charles the Champion.

But if you talk lineal, then Louis is the Champion and Charles is merely a claimant upstart (until he beats Louis.)

Sort of like Holmes-Ali; Johnson-Jeffries, or Tyson-Spinks. Some fighters have to win the title twice.

Straps vs. Lineal.

Consider attitudes at the time and how they reified to make some of these ideas stick. Guys like Abe Simon were considered Big Palookas; Buddy bauer, Galento, Canera... etc. However if we look at these guys, they have/had a surprising level of skill and fitness compared to what goes for a marquee heavy weight these days... And these guys were not considered anywhere near such a distinction, even though they were given a title shot.

[Willie Pep 229]

Farr won 5-6 rounds in my card.

Schmeling knocked Louis out.

Godoy could have won or drew the first match. Watch and score it your self.

Fat Tony floored Louis as did Buddy Baer.

Conn would have won if the fight was 12 rounds!

Walcott was robbed over 15 rounds.

Charles whipped Louis badly over the distance.


The TRUTH. Louis has his hand full with a bad lot of contenders.

Re Bold:

Conn: Never a fair argument. Fights often progress as dictated by their scheduled length.

Getting up after being "floored" is a sign of greatness.

Charles beat a very faded Louis.

Louis was set-up for failure in Walcott I. The fight went from a four round exhibition in May, to a 10 round no-decision (with a KO clause) in November, to a full 15 round title defense with judges.

Louis was disrespected, for a second time (See Johnny Davis,) by the NYSAC. The judges didn't want to give Walcott the title based on a fight where the Champion was not given the proper time to prepair mentally for the fight. They made the right call.

Louis then gave, the previously unranked Walcott, an immediate rematch and settled the controversy to no doubt.

Too many arguments without context.

[Bronson66]

Farr won 5-6 rounds in my card.

Schmeling knocked Louis out.

Godoy could have won or drew the first match. Watch and score it your self.

Fat Tony floored Louis as did Buddy Baer.

Conn would have won if the fight was 12 rounds!

Walcott was robbed over 15 rounds.

Charles whipped Louis badly over the distance.


The TRUTH. Louis has his hand full with a bad lot of contenders.

You haven't seen the complete Walcott fight,so you are in no position to give a verdict on it.

If the Conn fight was 12 rounds Louis would have gone to work earlier.
ie If the Jeffries v Corbett 1st fight was over 20rds Corbett would have been Champ again!
If the Johnson v Willard fight had been over 20 rds Johnson would have retained his title!

Louis had been retired for 2 years and 3 months when he came back to fight Charles.

Haters got to hate!


I predicted this,11 days ago!

"Joe Louis ,and Jack Johnson fans should prepare themselves for an onslaught of lies and defamation about them.in the near future.
A Leopard does not change its spots .
And a hating liar does not stop hating and lying."

[billeau2]

Re Bold:

Conn: Never a fair argument. Fights often progress as dictated by their scheduled length.

Getting up after being "floored" is a sign of greatness.

Charles beat a very faded Louis.

Louis was set-up for failure in Walcott I. The fight went from a four round exhibition in May, to a 10 round no-decision (with a KO clause) in November, to a full 15 round title defense with judges.

Louis was disrespected, for a second time (See Johnny Davis,) by the NYSAC. The judges didn't want to give Walcott the title based on a fight where the Champion was not given the proper time to prepair mentally for the fight. They made the right call.

Louis then gave, the previously unranked Walcott, an immediate rematch and settled the controversy to no doubt.

Too many arguments without context.

I do not know how deliberate Louis was in his application of number's theory to heavyweight boxing, but it is all there... an understanding or probability that would make Post Modern epistemologists blush...

Here it goes: A puncher reduced to his most basic constitution knows ONE thing needs to exist for success in a fight. That being enough opportunities, some "amount" of shots landing that guarantee success. This is even more fundamental than "when" or "how" these shots come together because,before one can say "I would rather have 5 good shots in one round to try and get the KO" One has to get the opportunity in the first place.

Shannon Briggs once beat a fellow heavyweight after throwing virtually no punches the entire fight, settling the fight in the last round with a KO... This was luck but it illustrates the point. Louis was a master at patience and knowing how many cracks at the apple he needed. He never rushed his work, and Conn was perhaps his master stroke. It showed how Louis could use this probability, knowing he would get his chance, and itb showed how good he was when he got his chance.

It is a numbers game and Louis seemed to get this. All he ever seemed to ask for was a certain amount of opportunities, never to win rounds, or to hasten, or slow his pace. I don't claim to know if he internalized this... but the Conn fight was a master stroke. Dr Z should know that Louis knew it was a 15 round fight lol.

[Willie Pep 229]

I do not know how deliberate Louis was in his application of number's theory to heavyweight boxing, but it is all there... an understanding or probability that would make Post Modern epistemologists blush...

Here it goes: A puncher reduced to his most basic constitution knows ONE thing needs to exist for success in a fight. That being enough opportunities, some "amount" of shots landing that guarantee success. This is even more fundamental than "when" or "how" these shots come together because,before one can say "I would rather have 5 good shots in one round to try and get the KO" One has to get the opportunity in the first place.

Shannon Briggs once beat a fellow heavyweight after throwing virtually no punches the entire fight, settling the fight in the last round with a KO... This was luck but it illustrates the point. Louis was a master at patience and knowing how many cracks at the apple he needed. He never rushed his work, and Conn was perhaps his master stroke. It showed how Louis could use this probability, knowing he would get his chance, and itb showed how good he was when he got his chance.

It is a numbers game and Louis seemed to get this. All he ever seemed to ask for was a certain amount of opportunities, never to win rounds, or to hasten, or slow his pace. I don't claim to know if he internalized this... but the Conn fight was a master stroke. Dr Z should know that Louis knew it was a 15 round fight lol.

Good post.

[JAB5239]

Good post.

A great post!!