Why did Ali struggle so much against Norton?

[automaton89]

Norton punched hard but Ali liked facing hitters. He wasn't fast, he wasn't smooth. He wasn't mentally anything special.

What was it about Norton that Ali struggled with. Did he say?

[automaton89]

Because Norton’s crab-legs like style was specifically designed to take away the jab.

But he couldn't swarm anywhere near the effectiveness of a frazier

[automaton89]

. Swarming is irrelevant here. Everything Ali did was off the jab. Norton’s style nullified it, which gave Ali fits. Norton gave Holmes fits, too. Frazier swarmed, but Ali beat the sh it out of Frazier, even in the fight he lost.
In a side note: Norton’s took away the jab and gave him a big advantage against slick boxers, but it also left him wide open for aggressive punchers who came straight
at him. It was a trade off.

That's not always true. Ali didn't beat foreman with jabs, he did it with straight rights and lefts.

[Bronson66]

Norton punched hard but Ali liked facing hitters. He wasn't fast, he wasn't smooth. He wasn't mentally anything special.

What was it about Norton that Ali struggled with. Did he say?

Eddie Futch coached Norton to jab when Ali did ,he spotted , that when Ali jabbed ,his right hand came out of position and that Norton would be able to land his own jab on Ali's exposed face.

[automaton89]

We weren’t talking about Foreman, we were talking about Norton and Frazier. Stop moving the goalposts and changing the subject: It just makes you look like a disingenuous little turd.

You were the one stating everything Ali did was off the jab.

[GhostofDempsey]

Eddie Futch knew how to beat Ali, he taught Norton the essentially same way he did with Frazier.

[Willie Pep 229]

I heard once that Ali told Ferdie Pacheco (sp) "to get me Foreman again. I can beat him everytime, he's easy to hit." But that he couldn't land cleanly on Norton and it was frustrating and always doubtful.

Whatever style it was, or whatever trainer wants to take credit for ot, Ali just found Norton hard to hit cleanly and thought Foreman an easier fight.

[JAB5239]

I heard once that Ali told Ferdie Pacheco (sp) "to get me Foreman again. I can beat him everytime, he's easy to hit." But that he couldn't land cleanly on Norton and it was frustrating and always doubtful.

Whatever style it was, or whatever trainer wants to take credit for ot, Ali just found Norton hard to hit cleanly and thought Foreman an easier fight.

Styles make fights. It's what's always bothered me about fan boys, thay refuse to accept this. Triangle theories don't work because when you're in the ring all that is out the window.

[JT1]

Because he was past peak and older. Norton was well suited stylistically to matching up a slower more stationary Ali.

[Kid Cauliflower]

Norton had a good awkward jab that was not quite Gene Fullmer but shared some characteristics, though Norton's was more like an up jab. Gene weirdly chopped downward from the elbow for his jab.

Below is a good analysis and reasons. Norton's normal cross guard keeps the left arm underneath, producing up jabs. Gene's reverse cross guard often has the left half extended already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP-epyt8cHA