My top heavyweight list.

[Dr. Z]

The only thing allowing Eastern Europeans in would have done (and did do when it eventually happened) is water down the talent pool with inferior talents.

Like they water down the talent now? Okay, that is one troll's opinion.

[billeau2]

You're currently watering down the world's gene pool, yet here you are stealing oxygen.....

No its ok!! Really... I happen to know my good friend Dr Z, more commonly known as commander Q, voluntarily holds his breath in for long intervals as to moniter his oxygen use responsibly! As the Jains told him in India, every breath not taken in gives the world more oxygen and allows millions upon millions of microbes survval.

[billeau2]

Like they water down the talent now? Okay, that is one troll's opinion.

Z,
I do believe that as all fighters look at great fighters there will be development. Already, Eastern European fighters are starting their careers earlier, Coming to places like Brooklyn NY and Las Vegas. This will make them more savy in the ring in generations to come.

[Dr. Z]

Ignored for being a complete waste of oxygen and time:
Dr. Z, QueensburyRules, Ascended, automaton89, Kid Cauliflower, BKM

Wow, 5 posters on ignore for a troll who joined boxing scene in June 2024 as has less than 50 total posts? You are a big

[Dr. Z]

Z,
I do believe that as all fighters look at great fighters there will be development. Already, Eastern European fighters are starting their careers earlier, Coming to places like Brooklyn NY and Las Vegas. This will make them more savy in the ring in generations to come.

Bill,

That's old school boxing, which I like. But now the #1 destination for boxing includes Saudi Arabia. If you look at these Eastern Euro guys, which are certainly a major part of the talent of part of the present and future of heavyweight boxing , I think the left hook is a punch best learned in the USA gyms...maybe it still is. When I think about it, the eastern euro guys have a very high percentage of KO's as a group. Yet the kind of rare left hook artists. So they are strong fighters as a group that sort of lack the left hook. Why is this so?

Fans would be surprised to learn the punch is like swinging a gate. This punch is best learned in the USA gyms and IMO is the best single KO blow.

[billeau2]

Bill,

That's old school boxing, which I like. But now the #1 destination for boxing includes Saudi Arabia. If you look at these Eastern Euro guys, which are certainly a major part of the talent of part of the present and future of heavyweight boxing , I think the left hook is a punch best learned in the USA gyms...maybe it still is. When I think about it, the eastern euro guys have a very high percentage of KO's as a group. Yet the kind of rare left hook artists. So they are strong fighters as a group that sort of lack the left hook. Why is this so?

Fans would be surprised to learn the punch is like swinging a gate. This punch is best learned in the USA gyms and IMO is the best single KO blow.

A left hook is actually best accomplished thinking of two discreet shots operating at right angles to each other. The swinging shot was popularized by fighters in MMA because the shot works well with smaller gloves. Fedorov I believe first started using it with success.

[Willie Pep 229]

Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20 year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was past their prime. When the fight took place, the results, and draws are factored in. 30%

3 ) Distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matter most to fighters not on film. 10%

I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings as bit . So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard
10. Griffin
11. Maher
12. Choynski
13. Hart
14. McCoy
15. O’Brien


1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles
3. Schmeling
4. Walcott
5. M Baer
6. Carnera
7. Godfrey
8. Moore
9. Bivins
10. Schaff
11. Conn
12. *****
13. Pastor
14. Farr
15. Loughran

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Johansson
5. Ray
6. Terrell
7. Machen
8. Folley
9. Williams
10. H. Johnson
11. Valdes
12. D Jones
13. Chuvalo
14. Layne
15. Cooper


1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. C00ney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2000: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth, and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield * Drug PED issues
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6.Byrd
7. Morrer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14 McCall
15. Ruiz


2001 - 2024 – Eastern European dominance era. The nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 3 Americans made the top 15. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different 2025-2045. Hopefully we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko
3. Usyk* active fighter
4. Joshua
5. Povetkin * PED issues very late in his career
5. Chagaev
6. Sanders
7. Ibragimov
8. Fury * active fighter, drug suspended PED ISSUES.
9. Haye
10. Adamek
11. Chambers
12. Brewster
13. Peter
14. Wilder * active fighter
15. Valuev


Head to head is different as many heavyweights of old we just too small to face modern 1990-2025 heavyweights. 105 names are listed.



.

I find the absence of Jack Sharkey and the inclusion of Max Schmeling at #3 seems too high.

I feel Schmeling has only two major victories, one over a blown-up WW Champion in Walker and of course his best night ever with Louis.

(I suspose his PTS wins over Uzcudun help his resume as well.)

He won his only title on a foul. Lost his first defense. Got beaten up by Max Baer. I'm not sure where this 3rd ranking comes from.

Other than the 'Louis miracle' Schmeling dosen't have a win over anyone on your list. I think #3 is too high a ranking for just one great night.

On the other hand Sharkey won the title from Schmeling, dismantled Wills, and beat Carnera.

He has a TKO over Tommy Loughran, who is on your list, and was beating Dempsey for six rounds until he wasn't.

I'm not saying that's a great career, but Schmeling at #3 and with Sharkey omitted completely seems a contradiction.

P.S. Who do you have at #12 for that period.

[The D3vil]

You've got Fury wayyyyy below Joshua, in spite of the fact that Fury only lost once, BARELY, to Usyk at 35 years old

While AJ was thoroughly whooped by him twice ON TOP OF losing to morbidly obese underachiever Andy Ruiz.

Can y'all just admit y'all hate Tyson Fury & be done with it?

There's just no argument that AJ is a greater or better fighter than Tyson Fury, until Fury at least loses again.

AJ would have to beat Usyk ONCE before the discussion even starts.

[Bronson66]

Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20 year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was past their prime. When the fight took place, the results, and draws are factored in. 30%

3 ) Distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matter most to fighters not on film. 10%

I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings as bit . So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard
10. Griffin
11. Maher
12. Choynski
13. Hart
14. McCoy
15. O’Brien


1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles
3. Schmeling
4. Walcott
5. M Baer
6. Carnera
7. Godfrey
8. Moore
9. Bivins
10. Schaff
11. Conn
12. *****
13. Pastor
14. Farr
15. Loughran

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Johansson
5. Ray
6. Terrell
7. Machen
8. Folley
9. Williams
10. H. Johnson
11. Valdes
12. D Jones
13. Chuvalo
14. Layne
15. Cooper


1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. C00ney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2000: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth, and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield * Drug PED issues
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6.Byrd
7. Morrer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14 McCall
15. Ruiz


2001 - 2024 – Eastern European dominance era. The nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 3 Americans made the top 15. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different 2025-2045. Hopefully we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko
3. Usyk* active fighter
4. Joshua
5. Povetkin * PED issues very late in his career
5. Chagaev
6. Sanders
7. Ibragimov
8. Fury * active fighter, drug suspended PED ISSUES.
9. Haye
10. Adamek
11. Chambers
12. Brewster
13. Peter
14. Wilder * active fighter
15. Valuev


Head to head is different as many heavyweights of old we just too small to face modern 1990-2025 heavyweights. 105 names are listed.



.

I'm curious as to why you have Archie Moore at no Eight in the 1926 to 1945 top 15?
At the end of 1945 he had fought a total of 5 heavyweights 4 of them journeymen.The only class man he had fought Bivins ko'd him.
Bivins,whom you rate below him had beaten besides Moore.
Sheppard
Murrayx2
Walker
Flynn
Pastor
Bettina
Scott
Mauriello x2
Valentino
Bettina
All at heavyweight.I don't see the reasoning behind this?

[Bronson66]

Well Moore was 73-9-5 when losing to Bivins and was born between era rankings. He was always below 200 lbs ...until 1960 when he was a 44 year old man.

You could say he belongs in the 1946 to 1965 era and would rank there if I move him ( and I may ) in the #6 to #9 range.

Thanks.

Yes he was, but he had only fought 5 heavyweights and lost to the only one of class,how many middleweights and light heavies he had beaten is irrelevant to his standing as a heavyweight up to the end of 1945

I don't understand what this next underlined has to do with anything?

"was born between[B] era rankings."