My top heavyweight list.

[Bronson66]

Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20 year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was past their prime. When the fight took place, the results, and draws are factored in. 30%

3 ) Distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matter most to fighters not on film. 10%

I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings as bit . So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard
10. Griffin
11. Maher
12. Choynski
13. Hart
14. McCoy
15. O’Brien


1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles
3. Schmeling
4. Walcott
5. M Baer
6. Carnera
7. Godfrey
8. Moore
9. Bivins
10. Schaff
11. Conn
12. *****
13. Pastor
14. Farr
15. Loughran

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Johansson
5. Ray
6. Terrell
7. Machen
8. Folley
9. Williams
10. H. Johnson
11. Valdes
12. D Jones
13. Chuvalo
14. Layne
15. Cooper


1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. C00ney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2000: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth, and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield * Drug PED issues
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6.Byrd
7. Morrer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14 McCall
15. Ruiz


2001 - 2024 – Eastern European dominance era. The nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 3 Americans made the top 15. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different 2025-2045. Hopefully we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko
3. Usyk* active fighter
4. Joshua
5. Povetkin * PED issues very late in his career
5. Chagaev
6. Sanders
7. Ibragimov
8. Fury * active fighter, drug suspended PED ISSUES.
9. Haye
10. Adamek
11. Chambers
12. Brewster
13. Peter
14. Wilder * active fighter
15. Valuev


Head to head is different as many heavyweights of old we just too small to face modern 1990-2025 heavyweights. 105 names are listed.



.

Are you only allowing a fighter to be listed in any one era? I ask because Griffin at number 10 seems very high to me? Apart from beating a still fairly green Johnson in1901 I don't see the justification for him being so high.
Johnson, on the other hand, beat.
Klon***e
Martinx2
McVey x3
Fergusonx2
Childs x2
Butler
Black Bill x2
Gardner.
During that era.
Like wise O Brien has 2 wins of note over a heavyweight during that time.both over Maher.

[Bronson66]

Where does Johnson's prime and wins happen? 1885-1905 OR 1906- 1925?

That should answer your question. Each man is listed once.

Griffin official beat Johnson once, but really beat him twice settling for a draw in their 2nd fight. He also beat H Marin ( colored champion ) and Jack Monore. Good enough for 10th best from 1885-1905. Perhaps he is a little high in his era.

The wins happened in both eras.But if you are listing a fighter only,that is your decision.
The 2nd Johnson v Griffin fight has only one news paper report,I hardly think that is enough to form a conclusive opinion of whom ,if either deserved the win.Their 1s t fight had the following report." Griffin landed said ,"honors were about evenly divided".
Regarding their 2nd meeting .Regarding their 2nd fight San Francisco Evening Post said ," it was impossible for either man to gain the advantage over the other."
So really it depends on which news paper report you give credence to.

[Bronson66]

Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20 year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was past their prime. When the fight took place, the results, and draws are factored in. 30%

3 ) Distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matter most to fighters not on film. 10%

I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings as bit . So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard
10. Griffin
11. Maher
12. Choynski
13. Hart
14. McCoy
15. O’Brien


1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeannette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Billy Mi@ke
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles
3. Schmeling
4. Walcott
5. M Baer
6. Carnera
7. Godfrey
8. Bivins
9. Schaff
10 &harkey
11. Conn
12. H@mas
13. Pastor
14. Farr
15. Rosenbloom

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Johansson
5. Ray
6. Terrell
7. Machen
8. Moo@e
9. Folley
10 Williams
11.H. Johnson
12. Nino Valdes
13. D Jones
14. Chuvalo
15. Layne




1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. C00ney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2000: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth, and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield * Drug PED issues
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6.Byrd
7. Morrer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14 McCall
15. Ruiz


2001 - 2024 – Eastern European dominance era. The nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 3 Americans made the top 15. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different 2025-2045. Hopefully we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko
3. Usyk* active fighter
4. Joshua
5. Povetkin * PED issues very late in his career
5. Chagaev
6. Sanders
7. Ibragimov
8. Fury * active fighter, drug suspended PED ISSUES.
9. Haye
10. Adamek
11. Chambers
12. Brewster
13. Peter
14. Wilder * active fighter
15. Valuev


Head to head is different as many heavyweights of old we just too small to face modern 1990-2025 heavyweights. 105 names are listed.

* Updated 6-19-24 for spelling display and inserting Archie M in the 1946-1955 era.

In the time scale you specified 1906 -1925, you have Tunney as your number 2.
Tunney did not enter the by then 2 years old rankings until the end of 1925,
His sum total of fights at heavyweight during that period was 5 fights all in1926 These are his opponents during that year.

Dan O Dowd 17-25-3 unranked

Johnny Risko19-7-0 unranked

Bartley Madden36-24-7unranked

Italian Jack Herman 7-11-0 unranked

Tommy Gibbons ranked no3. Gibbons was having his last fight.
A number 2 ranking for a fighter who only had 5 fights in those 20 years and all 5 of them in the last year seems very generous. For example during the at same period.
Langford ,whom you put 2 places below Tunney beat;

Wills multiple times
Jeannette multiple times
McVey multiple times
Clark multiple times
Barry multiple times
Jim Johnson multiple times
Jim Flynn several times
Porky Flynnx2
Klon***e x2
Smith
Ferguson
Hague
Rossx2
Shreck
Kubiak x2
Lang
Therefore how can you reasonably rank Tunney 2 places above Langford?
Again You have Tunney at number 2 and Wills at number 5.

During your time scale Wills beat.
Langford multiple times
McVey Multiple times
Jim Johnson multiple times
Norfolk
Tut
Firpo
Weinert
FloydJohnson
Fulton
Madden
Homer Smith
GunBoat Smith
Clark several times
Everett
Meehan
How Is Wills logically rated 3 spots below Tunney?

[Willow The Wisp]

To the late Dr. Z......
I always give fellow posters on these boards the benefit of the doubt and try to be respectful (and I occasionally fail).
I think that you were a good contributor here at one time.
Like many others have done, when you grow tired of lukwarm responses to your thoughts, obtuse posts getting likes while yours get TLDNR and must wade through the masses who prefer an opportunity to pontificate rather than learn something, regardless of their knowledge level, it becomes tempting to turn from balanced discussions and researched posts to trolling and baiting, to get attention.

A combative response being a whole lot more fun than no response. That might be you, or maybe not.
My advice, in all humility, was "Don't fall into that trap".
Enough said about that.
Now You are banned.


Now, I'm driven to get my own two cents across; but not interested to "debate" anyone. Just not my thing. As a journalist, historian and nitwit, I'm trained on one way traffic regarding my observations.

Good luck Dr. Z, and say hello to Ivich for us.




With that, my (very) alternative list:

Best Heavyweights 2001 -2024

1. Wladimir Klitschko, UKR
2. Tyson Fury, UK
3. Oleksandr Usyk, UKR
4. Lennox Lewis, UK
5. Anthony Joshua, UK
6. Deontay Wilder, US
7. Zhilei Zhang, CHI
8. Vitali Klitschko, UKR
9. Andy Ruiz Jr, US
10. David Tua, AUS
11. Hasim Rahman, US
12. Joseph Parker, NZ
13. Daniel Dubois
14. Luis Ortiz, CUB
15. Daniel Dubois, UK
16. Alexander Povetkin, RUS
17. Dillian Whyte, UK
18. Joe Joyce, UK
19. Agit Kabayel, GER
20. Mike Tyson, US
21. Chris Byrd, US
22. Corrie Sanders, SA
23. Ruslan Chagaev, UZB
24. David Haye, UK
25. Lamon Brewster, US
26. Jared Anderson, US
27. Chris Arreola, US
28. Jarrell Miller, US
29 .Kubrat Pulev, BUL
30. Filip Hrgovic, CRO
31. Roy Jones Jr., US
32. Charles Martin, US
33. John Ruiz, US
34. Derrick Chisora, UK
35. Martin Bakole, CON
36. Oliver McCall, US
37. Evander Holyfield, US
38. Tony Thompson, US
39. Calvin Brock, US
40. Nikolai Valuev, RUS
41. Samuel Peter, NIG
42. Fabio Wardley, UK
43. Sultan Ibragimov, RUS
44. Oleg Maskaev, KAZ
45. Bermane Stiverne, HAI
46. Jameel McCline, US
47. Carlos Takam, CAM
48. Johann Duhaupas, FRA
49. Baby Joe Mesi, US
50. Kirk Johnson, US
51. Robert Helenius, FIN
52. Bryant Jennings, US
53. Hughie Fury, UK
54. Luan Krasniqi, KOS
55. Mariusz Wach, POL
55. Otto Wallin, SWE
56. Michael Hunter, US
57. Frank Sanchez, CUB
58. Sinan Samil Sam, TUR
59. Efe Ajagba, NIG
60. Artur Szpilka, POL
61. Adam Kownacki, POL
62. Danny Williams, UK
63. Frazier Clarke, UK
64. Bakhodir Jalolov, UZB
65. James Toney, US
66. Eric Molina, US
67. Tomasz Adamek, POL
68. Siarhei Liakhovich, BEL
69. David Price, UK
70. Tony Yoka, FRA
71. Alexander Dimitrenko, UKR
72. Gerald Washington , US
73. Lance Whitaker, US
74. Ray Austin, US
75. DaVarryl Williamson, US
76. David Izon, NIG
77. Francesco Pianeta, ITA
78. Derrick Jefferson, US
79. Eddie Chambers, US
80 .Aleksandr Ustinov, RUS
81. Juan Carlos Gomez, CUB
82. Lawrence Clay-Bey, US
83. Cedric Boswell, US
84. Ray Mercer, US
85. Demsey McKean, AUS
86. Vladyslav Sirenko, UKR
87. Lucas Browne, AUS
88. Dominic Breazeale, US
89. Arslanbek Makhmudov, RUS
90. Frans Botha, SA
91. Derric Rossey, US
92. Simon Kean, CAN
93. Jermain Franklin, US
94. Timo Hoffmann, GER
95. Lenier Pero, CUB
96. Larry Donald, US
97. Christian Hammer, ROM
98. Audley Harrison, UK
99. Jeremy Williams, US
100.Kali Meehan, NZ

[Bronson66]

In the time scale you specified 1906 -1925, you have Tunney as your number 2.
Tunney did not enter the by then 2 years old rankings until the end of 1925,
His sum total of fights at heavyweight during that period was 5 fights all in1926 These are his opponents during that year.

Dan O Dowd 17-25-3 unranked

Johnny Risko19-7-0 unranked

Bartley Madden36-24-7unranked

Italian Jack Herman 7-11-0 unranked

Tommy Gibbons ranked no3. Gibbons was having his last fight.
A number 2 ranking for a fighter who only had 5 fights in those 20 years and all 5 of them in the last year seems very generous. For example during the at same period.
Langford ,whom you put 2 places below Tunney beat;

Wills multiple times
Jeannette multiple times
McVey multiple times
Clark multiple times
Barry multiple times
Jim Johnson multiple times
Jim Flynn several times
Porky Flynnx2
Klon***e x2
Smith
Ferguson
Hague
Rossx2
Shreck
Kubiak x2
Lang
Therefore how can you reasonably rank Tunney 2 places above Langford?
Again You have Tunney at number 2 and Wills at number 5.

During your time scale Wills beat.
Langford multiple times
McVey Multiple times
Jim Johnson multiple times
Norfolk
Tut
Firpo
Weinert
FloydJohnson
Fulton
Madden
Homer Smith
GunBoat Smith
Clark several times
Everett
Meehan
How Is Wills logically rated 3 spots below Tunney?

Well it doesn't seem I will be getting any answers to my questions.anytime soon.

[Willow The Wisp]

Dubois is reflected Before and after his recent conquest. I beleive he will be in with Joshua next, a great matchup.

[Willow The Wisp]

Well it doesn't seem I will be getting any answers to my questions.anytime soon.

Your post isn't directed at me, but let me have a look buddy. Busy week.

[JAB5239]

Well it doesn't seem I will be getting any answers to my questions.anytime soon.

My guess is you already know the answer to those questions.

[Bronson66]

Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20 year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was past their prime. When the fight took place, the results, and draws are factored in. 30%

3 ) Distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matter most to fighters not on film. 10%

I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings as bit . So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard
10. Griffin
11. Maher
12. Choynski
13. Hart
14. McCoy
15. O’Brien


1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeannette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Billy Mi@ke
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles
3. Schmeling
4. Walcott
5. M Baer
6. Carnera
7. Godfrey
8. Bivins
9. Schaff
10 &harkey
11. Conn
12. H@mas
13. Pastor
14. Farr
15. Rosenbloom

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Johansson
5. Ray
6. Terrell
7. Machen
8. Moo@e
9. Folley
10 Williams
11.H. Johnson
12. Nino Valdes
13. D Jones
14. Chuvalo
15. Layne




1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. C00ney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2000: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth, and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield * Drug PED issues
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6.Byrd
7. Morrer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14 McCall
15. Ruiz


2001 - 2024 – Eastern European dominance era. The nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 3 Americans made the top 15. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different 2025-2045. Hopefully we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko
3. Usyk* active fighter
4. Joshua
5. Povetkin * PED issues very late in his career
5. Chagaev
6. Sanders
7. Ibragimov
8. Fury * active fighter, drug suspended PED ISSUES.
9. Haye
10. Adamek
11. Chambers
12. Brewster
13. Peter
14. Wilder * active fighter
15. Valuev


Head to head is different as many heavyweights of old we just too small to face modern 1990-2025 heavyweights. 105 names are listed.

* Updated 6-19-24 for spelling display and inserting Archie M in the 1946-1955 era.

Ezzard Charles at number 2 Heavyweight
1926-1945 Charles had 2 fights against a man weighing in at heavyweight during the era Joey Maxim an overstuffed Lhvy.
There is no way on earth Charles should be number 2 in that era.

[Dr. Z]

To the late Dr. Z......
I always give fellow posters on these boards the benefit of the doubt and try to be respectful (and I occasionally fail).
I think that you were a good contributor here at one time.
Like many others have done, when you grow tired of lukwarm responses to your thoughts, obtuse posts getting likes while yours get TLDNR and must wade through the masses who prefer an opportunity to pontificate rather than learn something, regardless of their knowledge level, it becomes tempting to turn from balanced discussions and researched posts to trolling and baiting, to get attention.

A combative response being a whole lot more fun than no response. That might be you, or maybe not.
My advice, in all humility, was "Don't fall into that trap".
Enough said about that.
Now You are banned.


Now, I'm driven to get my own two cents across; but not interested to "debate" anyone. Just not my thing. As a journalist, historian and nitwit, I'm trained on one way traffic regarding my observations.

Good luck Dr. Z, and say hello to Ivich for us.




With that, my (very) alternative list:

Best Heavyweights 2001 -2024

1. Wladimir Klitschko, UKR
2. Tyson Fury, UK
3. Oleksandr Usyk, UKR
4. Lennox Lewis, UK
5. Anthony Joshua, UK
6. Deontay Wilder, US
7. Zhilei Zhang, CHI
8. Vitali Klitschko, UKR
9. Andy Ruiz Jr, US
10. David Tua, AUS
11. Hasim Rahman, US
12. Joseph Parker, NZ
13. Daniel Dubois
14. Luis Ortiz, CUB
15. Daniel Dubois, UK
16. Alexander Povetkin, RUS
17. Dillian Whyte, UK
18. Joe Joyce, UK
19. Agit Kabayel, GER
20. Mike Tyson, US
21. Chris Byrd, US
22. Corrie Sanders, SA
23. Ruslan Chagaev, UZB
24. David Haye, UK
25. Lamon Brewster, US
26. Jared Anderson, US
27. Chris Arreola, US
28. Jarrell Miller, US
29 .Kubrat Pulev, BUL
30. Filip Hrgovic, CRO
31. Roy Jones Jr., US
32. Charles Martin, US
33. John Ruiz, US
34. Derrick Chisora, UK
35. Martin Bakole, CON
36. Oliver McCall, US
37. Evander Holyfield, US
38. Tony Thompson, US
39. Calvin Brock, US
40. Nikolai Valuev, RUS
41. Samuel Peter, NIG
42. Fabio Wardley, UK
43. Sultan Ibragimov, RUS
44. Oleg Maskaev, KAZ
45. Bermane Stiverne, HAI
46. Jameel McCline, US
47. Carlos Takam, CAM
48. Johann Duhaupas, FRA
49. Baby Joe Mesi, US
50. Kirk Johnson, US
51. Robert Helenius, FIN
52. Bryant Jennings, US
53. Hughie Fury, UK
54. Luan Krasniqi, KOS
55. Mariusz Wach, POL
55. Otto Wallin, SWE
56. Michael Hunter, US
57. Frank Sanchez, CUB
58. Sinan Samil Sam, TUR
59. Efe Ajagba, NIG
60. Artur Szpilka, POL
61. Adam Kownacki, POL
62. Danny Williams, UK
63. Frazier Clarke, UK
64. Bakhodir Jalolov, UZB
65. James Toney, US
66. Eric Molina, US
67. Tomasz Adamek, POL
68. Siarhei Liakhovich, BEL
69. David Price, UK
70. Tony Yoka, FRA
71. Alexander Dimitrenko, UKR
72. Gerald Washington , US
73. Lance Whitaker, US
74. Ray Austin, US
75. DaVarryl Williamson, US
76. David Izon, NIG
77. Francesco Pianeta, ITA
78. Derrick Jefferson, US
79. Eddie Chambers, US
80 .Aleksandr Ustinov, RUS
81. Juan Carlos Gomez, CUB
82. Lawrence Clay-Bey, US
83. Cedric Boswell, US
84. Ray Mercer, US
85. Demsey McKean, AUS
86. Vladyslav Sirenko, UKR
87. Lucas Browne, AUS
88. Dominic Breazeale, US
89. Arslanbek Makhmudov, RUS
90. Frans Botha, SA
91. Derric Rossey, US
92. Simon Kean, CAN
93. Jermain Franklin, US
94. Timo Hoffmann, GER
95. Lenier Pero, CUB
96. Larry Donald, US
97. Christian Hammer, ROM
98. Audley Harrison, UK
99. Jeremy Williams, US
100.Kali Meehan, NZ

I am still here. I took a summer vaction. What did I miss? I'm not going anywhere.