Sonny Liston vs Marciano resume comparison

[Ivich]

Liston's resume is uneven. He has the Marty Marshal loss, the Ali quit job's, and a devastating KO loss to Martin.

Rocky resume is a bit better.

Liston was a 7 fight novice when he lost to Marshall whilst fighting under the handicap of a broken jaw,it was a split decision subsequently emphatically avenged twice.
Liston was an old man when Martin stopped him
Liston was thrown in with some good fighters early,guys like Summerlin.

Marciano was fed a collection of stiffs at the start of his career.

Got the benefit of 2 dubious decisions because his manager was the matchmaker for MSG and he was connected to the Mob run IBC .

Marciano retired before he aged , it would have been interesting to see how he would have performed against a Leotis Martin when Liston's age.

I beleive Marciano fought 2 Ring ranked contenders before he challenged for the title,Louis and Layne.

Liston fought 7.
Hunter
Bethea
DeJohn
Valdes
Harris
Machen
Folley

[them_apples]

Liston has excuses. He lost to a skinny heavyweight in Marshall. He was knocked out cold for 60 seconds vs Martin. And he has two quit jobs vs. Ali

Rocky fought more ring ranked condolers, I think. Liston flirted with a DQ vs. Machen.

Marciano might have lost an earlier close fight, but to claim his was mob connected is a bit of a double standard. We are talking Liston here.

Yeah and to claim mob connections for any heavyweight during those says is absurd. Boxing was owned by the mob.

it doesn’t matter anyways though, Charles, Walcott and Moore were the best around and had beat heavyweights themselves. people act like they jumped up from lhw and got slaughtered.

[Ivich]

Yeah and to claim mob connections for any heavyweight during those says is absurd. Boxing was owned by the mob.

it doesnâÂÂt matter anyways though, Charles, Walcott and Moore were the best around and had beat heavyweights themselves. people act like they jumped up from lhw and got slaughtered.

Yes boxing was owned by the mob and several authors have speculated Marciano got the rub of the green against both Lowry 1and Lastarza 1.

Therefore it is relevant to point it out,just as it would be relevant to point out Clarence Henry,Freddie Beshore,Ike Williams ,Jimmy Carter and a host of others were if their names were the subject under discussion.

[Ivich]

Liston has excuses. He lost to a skinny heavyweight in Marshall. He was knocked out cold for 60 seconds vs Martin. And he has two quit jobs vs. Ali

Rocky fought more ring ranked condolers, I think. Liston flirted with a DQ vs. Machen.

Marciano might have lost an earlier close fight, but to claim his was mob connected is a bit of a double standard. We are talking Liston here.

Both Liston and Marciano were mob connected Liston was owned,by Carbo and Palermo
Marciano's manager was owned by Carbo.
The crucial difference is Liston was not the beneficiary of 2 highly debateable decisions and Marciano was.

Liston's connections with the mob may actually have hurt his standing,because both Ali fights are under a cloud.

Liston fought the following Ring ranked contenders,and champions
Hunter
Bethea
Harris
Patterson
Martin
Valdes
Folley
Machen
DeJohn
Ali

That's 10

Marciano fought the following
Layne
Lastarza
Louis
Walcott
Charles
****ell
Moore

That's 7
Neither fought any condolers, or any Gondoliers !
You preach about double standards and mention Liston was deducted 2 points against Machen,his one and only penalisation in a fight.
Liston was a clean fighter.

You neglected to say Marciano was a dirty fighter.

Under New York's supplemental scoring system referee Watson had Marciano winning 9-6, so Marciano was awarded a split decision.
"LaStarza was down for a seven-count in round four, Marciano lost the eighth round due to a low blow."

"2nd fight.1953 Fight of the Year - Ring ****zine; LaStarza was knocked through the ropes before the fight was stopped.
Marciano was warned six or seven times for fouls but it seems no points were taken."

Marciano hit Moore after the bell.

He hit Walcott when he was on the floor.

Against ****ell Marciano fought a very dirty fight,he elbowed him,hit him low ,after the bell, butted him, and hit him when he was on the floor.

THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL HAVING A DOUBLE STANDARD !

[them_apples]

Liston was a 7 fight novice when he lost to Marshall whilst fighting under the handicap of a broken jaw,it was a split decision subsequently emphatically avenged twice.
Liston was an old man when Martin stopped him
Liston was thrown in with some good fighters early,guys like Summerlin.

Marciano was fed a collection of stiffs at the start of his career.

Got the benefit of 2 dubious decisions because his manager was the matchmaker for MSG and he was connected to the Mob run IBC .

Marciano retired before he aged , it would have been interesting to see how he would have performed against a Leotis Martin when Liston's age.

I beleive Marciano fought 2 Ring ranked contenders before he challenged for the title,Louis and Layne.

Liston fought 7.
Hunter
Bethea
DeJohn
Valdes
Harris
Machen
Folley

Marciano had 10 ammy fights or so. Is he not allowed to fight a bunch of stiffs? Its unreal how little experience he had for how far he went.

when he retired he was at his peak, he got better as his career went on.

[Ivich]

Marciano had 10 ammy fights or so. Is he not allowed to fight a bunch of stiffs? Its unreal how little experience he had for how far he went.

when he retired he was at his peak, he got better as his career went on.

Marciano's
31st pro fight .Keene Simmons 8-8-1

32nd .Harold Mitchell 7-13-3

33rd .Art Henri 13-15-1

34th. Willis Applegate 11-14-2 Applegate had fought twice in the previous 2 years.

[them_apples]

Marciano's
31st pro fight .Keene Simmons 8-8-1

32nd .Harold Mitchell 7-13-3

33rd .Art Henri 13-15-1

34th. Willis Applegate 11-14-2 Applegate had fought twice in the previous 2 years.

Ali getting knocked stiff by cooper and getting his glove cut to save his ass? How do we view this? It looks like a Lennox Lewis Vs Rahman type stoppage only he got help.

Ali vs Doug Jones. Watch that one with a good eye. Did he even win? It gets harder and harder to agree with the decision - makes sense no rematch.

Liston quit in his prime vs Ali. What a myth that he is past it. He beat Patterson the fight before. Ali saw right through his persona and took his soul. Those who knew Liston and Ali said ma ke no mistake, Liston was a bad dude, but he was no Cassius Clayà from Listons book.

and so what if Marciano had a few tuneups, he had hardly any fight experience. He was basically a street fighter in with world champions.

look at Ezzard Charles resume, and his style. Marciano was giving up height reach weight and speed vs Charles. There was no reason for him to win that one.

if you wanna go by numbers, factor in Evander Holyfield has 10 losses and 44 wins. He fought everyone and naturally accrued losses. Charles is the same thing only better.

the only thing ill agree with is Marciano is a dirty fighter. I say this because I have watched his fights so many times. He has belted guys in the back of the head flush, low blowed them, kneed them, hit after the bell and (If I recall) elbowed them. But so have a lot of other oldschool fighters. If the ref doesnt see it then so be it. And to be fair the guys he hit in the back of their heads were leaning down almost 90 degrees. He’s not the first dirty fighter. There have been many in history so lets not suddenly hit rock with these accusations without doing it to the rest.

[them_apples]

Marciano's
31st pro fight .Keene Simmons 8-8-1

32nd .Harold Mitchell 7-13-3

33rd .Art Henri 13-15-1

34th. Willis Applegate 11-14-2 Applegate had fought twice in the previous 2 years.

You can do this to so many fighters. They are called tuneups. This is a pointless accusation for the 1950s

robinson???

[Ivich]

You can do this to so many fighters. They are called tuneups. This is a pointless accusation for the 1950s

robinson???

You think that fighting nobodies when you are 31-0-0,32-0-0, 32-0-0,and 34-0-0 is fine?

I wonder if you would feel the same if the boxer in question was not named Marciano?
I don't know why you mentioned Robinson,but,since you did by the time he had had a comparable number of fights to Marciano,he had been in with;
Servo x2

Angott x2

Lamotta

These 3 guys had a then collective total of 263 wins on their resumes.

[them_apples]

You think that fighting nobodies when you are 31-0-0,32-0-0, 32-0-0,and 34-0-0 is fine?

I wonder if you would feel the same if the boxer in question was not named Marciano?
I don't know why you mentioned Robinson,but,since you did by the time he had had a comparable number of fights to Marciano,he had been in with;
Servo x2

Angott x2

Lamotta

These 3 guys had a then collective total of 263 wins on their resumes.

Yes I do if they are tune ups.

itsy to find evidence of this I will let you dig them up yourself.

Monzon for example fought a dude in 71 who was 0-1, his resume is littered with tuneups.

TUNEUPs to stay active.

by the 70s they weren you don’t have a point here so leave it