If Men Under 200lbs Could Compete Successfully V Todays Top Heavies?

[Ivich]

Frank Bruno is the GOAT if head size and voice is the measure!!!

Head alone Tyson!

[them_apples]

The voice bit had me rolling as well. "Listen to his voice!! Yep. He's a heavy alright!"

Yes large chested people with big Rib cages generally have louder voices

[them_apples]

Ali was 6'3" with an optimum fighting weight of 212lbs,as he aged he added weight as most of us do.
Did Pacquiao beat Jnr middles whilst weighing in at featherweight,or did he add muscle weight to his frame? If the answer is the latter which we know it is the next question is why? Do you think you might be able to answer at least some of my questions?
Im also still waiting for the proof Marciano hit the 300lns bag for 30 rds after sparring will you now provide it or again ignore it like you have all my other questions?

Pacquiao weighed 148 lbs when he beat Margarito up BAD.

he weighed 145 vs Erik Morales

[them_apples]

There is no logic to these arguments.
When a poster declares.
The reason Cruisers add weight to compete against heavyweights is because they,"do not know how to fight",and that Marciano would ko
Wlad
Lewis
Joshua
Bowe
You know you are dealing with a closed mind,one that is blinded by adoring hero worship.

Yet I have listed billions of reasons.
yeah the loud voice was a stretch and not my main point but I have made dozens of others. You haven’t made any. You tried to with the Roy Jones idea, but even that doesn’t work he wasn’t even 200 lbs.

[them_apples]

Frank Bruno is the GOAT if head size and voice is the measure!!!

It simply means Bruno is a big man, regardless of height /weight And he is.

[them_apples]

It will always be a point of contention. And there will always be things that are important but just not part of the conversation mostly because of general ignorance.

I'll mention a few of these. First of all, what affects competition? If you look at heavyweights today their skill sets are extremely limited with some exceptions of course, they are not conditioned very well compared to in the past I mean they can barely plod for 12 rounds half the time using an amateur style. Could the fact that a smaller heavyweight from the past compete simply be based on skill level?

Paradoxical a lot of the bigger heavyweights from the past were not particularly skilled, at least compared to the great fighters of the time. Again with obvious exceptions to the rule... but if we look at the average size as compared to Peers, we see fighters like Abe Simon, primo canara, etc. generally these fighters would never considered as skilled compared to the average size heavyweight at the time.

IN modern times a lot of bigger heavyweights were are considered also some of the best. Klitsko, Lewis, etc

Finally something that them apples and I among others have alluded to is the idea of size. Size is not all based on weight. Look at the size of a pitbull and how it is built compared to a large dog like an Afghan. A lot of the heavyweights that came in light deliberately had big bones, and size in terms of density with respect to muscle mass.

No doubt a fighter like Liston could easily fight at 250 plus today without being in as nearly good physical condition. This to me is a very important detail when it comes to making this comparison regarding competition.

Even a fighter like Marciano could probably come in at around 210 even 215, if he plodded using a base amateur style as opposed to using constant pressure. But why would he want to do that?

Let's look at the Pitbull Cruze versus Rolly Romero fight as a good analogy. Pitbull is actually a small fighter for the weight while Rolly was big for the weight... Pitbull size allowed him to maximize his tactics and he became, by virtue of these tactics the stronger puncher, the more aggressive fighter, etc.

Perfect examples.

they do understand this, but refuse to. Sometimes Ivich accidentally understands things but then goes on to keep arguing.

I said George and Frazier were nearly the same weight which by his account makes them the same size.

then he goes and says Joe just put fat on his frame. Yea he did and thats exactly my point! It all depends on what makes up the weight.

the heavyweights he’s mentioning are not all frame and natural lean muscle, no its fat, water and creatine bulk.

we know this by the fact that their weights fluctuate massively and the fact that they move like heavy robots with no stamina. joshua came in as light as 236? And he still looks like he could drop another 15. He’s been lifting weights for a long time a developed a body that contradicts what he’s doing. Recently he has been losing weight and changing his style. Did he get a new trainer with half a brain?

Fury is roughly 250- but he should be 210. Yes he is tall, but his build is that of a slim smaller framed man(for a heavyweight) his knock knees alone tells you his frame can’t hold the weight

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes large chested people with big Rib cages generally have louder voices

Not really. Louder voices yes, but not necessarily a more powerful sounding voice.

During the post-Renaissance it was common (too common in fact that Leopold had to pass a law stopping the practice, due to the fact there was so much wealth to be gained) to neuter a second or third son at birth to create a false soprano (falsetto).

Like a steer, a eunuch would grow to a great size without muscle. They would have high voices and large barreled chests.

These immense chests would allow them to fill up large halls with their unaturally high voice.

In short a large chest does not guarantee a heavy sounding voice but you are correct it does make it louder.

Not sure if that works in identifying a HW boxer though.

[Ivich]

Pacquiao weighed 148 lbs when he beat Margarito up BAD.

he weighed 145 vs Erik Morales

No And No.

Pacquaio weighed 129 1/2lbs when he fought Morales in 2005. Morales weighed130lbs. A difference of 1/2 a pound.

Pacquiao weighed128 1/2lbs when he fought Morales in2006 .Morales weighed130lba.A difference of 1 1/2lbs
.
Pacquiao weighed 129lbs for his third and final fight with Morales in 2006.Morales weighed the same 129lbs

Pacquiao weighed 144 1/2lbs when he fought Margarito in2010 .Margarito weighed 150lbs.A difference of 5 1/2lbs

[Ivich]

Perfect examples.

they do understand this, but refuse to. Sometimes Ivich accidentally understands things but then goes on to keep arguing.

I said George and Frazier were nearly the same weight which by his account makes them the same size.

then he goes and says Joe just put fat on his frame. Yea he did and thats exactly my point! It all depends on what makes up the weight.

the heavyweights heâÂÂs mentioning are not all frame and natural lean muscle, no its fat, water and creatine bulk.

we know this by the fact that their weights fluctuate massively and the fact that they move like heavy robots with no stamina. joshua came in as light as 236? And he still looks like he could drop another 15. Heâs been lifting weights for a long time a developed a body that contradicts what heâs doing. Recently he has been losing weight and changing his style. Did he get a new trainer with half a brain?

Fury is roughly 250- but he should be 210. Yes he is tall, but his build is that of a slim smaller framed man(for a heavyweight) his knock knees alone tells you his frame canâÂÂt hold the weight

Frazier accumulated 9lbs of surplus weight by the time he defended against Foreman,it was not muscle,nor was it a deliberate plan .
It was the result of not training as he had before the Ali fight.It is well documented that he was complacent and thought he would breeze through Foreman.Playing and singing with his band.
After the Ali fight Frazier did not train with the same dedication.
Against Ali he weighed205 1/2lbs and fought the fight of his life.
HIs next 2 fights were gimmees easy defences.
For the 1st against Daniels an unranked journeyman he weighed215 1/2lbs an increase of 10lbs.

For the 2nd against Stander .also an unranked journeyman,he weighed 217 1/2lbs an increase of12 1/2lbs over his weight against Ali.
Film of those fights shows Frazier was fleshy and his body was not as toned as it had been ,with little muscle definition, a soft middle and surplus weight around his ass and hips.
Frazier could get away with not being in top shape against this class of opponent,but when he faced a significantly better class in Foreman, he was badly undone.

Frazier was never the same size as Foreman, so again stop putting words in my mouth I never spoke.
Prime Frazier was 5'11"with a 42 " chest and weighed 205lbs.
Prime Foreman was 6'3"with a 44" chest and weighed 217lbs/220lbs .

The extra wight Frazier had added to his frame after the 1st Ali fight was FAT not muscle WATCH THE FIGHTS !

[them_apples]

Frazier accumulated 9lbs of surplus weight by the time he defended against Foreman,it was not muscle,nor was it a deliberate plan .
It was the result of not training as he had before the Ali fight.It is well documented that he was complacent and thought he would breeze through Foreman.Playing and singing with his band.
After the Ali fight Frazier did not train with the same dedication.
Against Ali he weighed205 1/2lbs and fought the fight of his life.
HIs next 2 fights were gimmees easy defences.
For the 1st against Daniels an unranked journeyman he weighed215 1/2lbs an increase of 10lbs.

For the 2nd against Stander .also an unranked journeyman,he weighed 217 1/2lbs an increase of12 1/2lbs over his weight against Ali.
Film of those fights shows Frazier was fleshy and his body was not as toned as it had been ,with little muscle definition, a soft middle and surplus weight around his ass and hips.
Frazier could get away with not being in top shape against this class of opponent,but when he faced a significantly better class in Foreman, he was badly undone.

Frazier was never the same size as Foreman, so again stop putting words in my mouth I never spoke.
Prime Frazier was 5'11"with a 42 " chest and weighed 205lbs.
Prime Foreman was 6'3"with a 44" chest and weighed 217lbs/220lbs .

The extra wight Frazier had added to his frame after the 1st Ali fight was FAT not muscle WATCH THE FIGHTS !

I KNOW joe frazier is not the same size as George regardless of weight. But that is my point to make not yours.

you claim 220 lbs is minimum needed to compete against heavier men. And I am telling you it doesn’t matter it all depends on the persons body type.

Foreman was 220 and probably ranks as the strongest heavyweight that isn’t cursed with giantism or some other ailment.

Ken Norton weighed 220 and he clearly suffers from the added bulk.

this has been my point from the beginning. These heavyweights today are not bigger they simply just add bulk to their frames, which in boxing does nothing but make them an easier target with **** poor stamina.

is Holyfield at 220 as big as George? We saw them both fight, one man is so obviously bigger and stronger than the other it wouldn’t matter if George dropped some chub.