Analysis of Jack Johnsons style.

[Bronson66]

How do you figure Willard would stack up against the mighty Klits?

I think they both beat him,Willard was durable and had good power in his right hand but that's about it, he was content to keep his opponents at distance not seeking to really hurt them unless they managed to hurt him,which was a rare occurrence.
His defence against Moran was an early snorebore , a forerunner of some of Wlad's fights.

There have always big men in the sport.Willard,Potgeiter,Carnera,Impelletierre,B Baer,Simon etc,but none of them showed the skill and coordination of the Klits.

Neither of the Brothers was exciting to watch imo,but they proved to be very effective.

Vitali was the less talented of the two,imo,but had an excellent awareness of range and how to utilise it.

He seemed to always be able to land his languid arm punches without taking return fire,well until he faced Lennox,that is.

Not as lethal a puncher as his Brother,and with rather static footwork, he did have a much better chin,if only he had been inclined to take on better opponents,he might well have been talked of today as an ATG.

Stylistically he would be a very problematical opponent for anyone imo.


Wlad was a cautious boxer who operated under the principle of," water will eventually erode stone," chip ,chip, chipping away .

He rarely went for the stoppage until he had assured himself his opponent was reduced to almost a sacrificial lamb status,and there was little danger of incoming fire finding his less than sturdy chin.

Wlad's problem was, when his opponents began throwing he shut up shop until they ceased,but he had real power and a top jab.

I found his swan song against Joshua where he," let it all hang out," redeemed him for some of the less than edifying displays of laying all over his smaller opponents.
To steal and paraphrase Malcolm's eulogy of King Duncan in Macbeth. " Nothing so became his boxing career as his leaving of it."

Wlad always said," my Brother would beat me,he is the more natural fighter."

Sorry this is so wordy, it must be down to that early night I had yesterday.

[Dr. Z]

So you have absolutely NOTHING to back it up, and you just want to disregard the official weights. BRILLIANT!!!

Nothing? Dude read or search the web, and you will find it.

[Bronson66]

There are FACTS, just like Johnson,the heavyweight champion of the world was KO early by a man weighing in the 170's, floored by a super middleweight and out boxed by another by primary sources! Just like he was lucky to draw vs Journeyman Battling Johnson. Some champion.

Just like he holds wins over novices in Sam Mcvey, and Joe Jeatnnete. You conveniently forget this, so I am here to remind you and the others who read you dirvel.

Admit it dude, you like the freemason wife beater for brotherly reasons

I think he is overrated and like you a lousy human being.

Now I am not going to reply to switch bait tactics of Jeffries or Louis who have zero to do with the OP's point and thread.

You bring up the journeyman Ferguson 33-22-14. Yeah he was something else, right?

Just facts. The man lies and has the nerve to call me a liar?

Johnson fought Choynski in1901,when he himself was a super middleweight,Jack didn't win the title until December 1908.So your statement is not correct.

Neither was Johnson outboxed by O Brien it was officially a NO Dec.
A six round no decision bout.Johnson knowing the light hitting O Brien would have to knock him out to win didn't train for the fight and was out partying the night before.
Opinions as to who deserved the verdict were divided.

"Three or four times during the mix-ups, O'Brien was roughed to the floor, and once he got tangled in the ropes." (Philadelphia Inquirer). The Philadelphia Inquirer scored for Johnson. Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in NY Sun and Washington Herald). The NY Times ruled it a draw. Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade. The Sports editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer in May 23 issue wrote: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won at any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap." The Philadelphia Item stated that O'Brien soundly out-boxed Johnson. All-in-all, it seems that the best choice would be to show it as a draw.



JimJohnson has wins over
Pelkey
Jeannette x2
Tate
Draws with
McVey
Jeannette
Langford

I brought up Ferguson to illustrate Johnson beat many big men.
Ferguson beat
Jeannette
Barry
Kubiak
Byers
Klon***e
Armstrong
Draws with
Langford
Ruhlin
Flynn

[Bronson66]

Nothing? Dude read or search the web, and you will find it.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
If you make a statement and someone calls you on it ,the onus is on you to prove your statement by providing a primary source that confirms it.
You made the statement and,when called on it ,told him to look it up.
1.That's for you to do and produce it
2,There is nothing to look up,which, since you made it up, you are well aware of!

[Dr. Z]

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
If you make a statement and someone calls you on it ,the onus is on you to prove your statement by providing a primary source that confirms it.
You made the statement and,when called on it ,told him to look it up.
1.That's for you to do and produce it
2,There is nothing to look up,which, since you made it up, you are well aware of!

Idiot. You don't think I could find that Burns was 168 pounds? I produced several weights for Ketchel in his fights before and after. Use whatever reason your brain has left

He does not respond to what I say. Now go away, Ivich. I warned you. I might report you as an alt who is harassing the other posters. To date, I have not. Stop trying to close my threads and others. We have seen enough of that.

END.

[Dr. Z]

Johnson fought Choynski in1901,when he himself was a super middleweight,Jack didn't win the title until December 1908.So your statement is not correct.

Neither was Johnson outboxed by O Brien it was officially a NO Dec.
A six round no decision bout.Johnson knowing the light hitting O Brien would have to knock him out to win didn't train for the fight and was out partying the night before.
Opinions as to who deserved the verdict were divided.

"

LAIR, Prove to me Johnson was a super middleweight from 1901 and beyond. This is a hoot.

I quote yourself.

1.That's for you to do and produce it
2,There is nothing to look up,which, since you made it up, you are well awareof !

Now do it or be gone from this discussion.

[Bronson66]

LAIR, Prove to me Johnson was a super middleweight from 1901 and beyond. This is a hoot.

I quote yourself.




Now do it or be gone from this discussion.

We have Adam Pollack's quoted opinion on it,Adam has written3 books on Johnson and must be considered the paramount expert on him.
We also have the fact that 10 months earlier Johnson weighed168lbs for a fight,and 2 years after the Choynski fight Johnson scaled 173lbs against Sam McVey.
How many times have you misspelt the word LIAR?

Since you use it so often, and its only 4 letters I should have thought you could have mastered the correct spelling by now?

LAIR?

[Bronson66]

Idiot. You don't think I could find that Burns was 168 pounds? I produced several weights for Ketchel in his fights before and after. Use whatever reason your brain has left

He does not respond to what I say. Now go away, Ivich. I warned you. I might report you as an alt who is harassing the other posters. To date, I have not. Stop trying to close my threads and others. We have seen enough of that.

END.

Where did I say Burns was NOT 168lbs?
I have never had an ALT I told you to look up what the definition is.
I will post on any public thread I wish.

I don't want to close your thread,or anyone else's that is in any way not in my power. I just correct your mistakes and lies,that is not harassment ,its public service! lol

You do as you wish ,and may the consequences fall on your head.

[JAB5239]

Nothing? Dude read or search the web, and you will find it.

I've done my research and it says you're full of crap. Just like you were when you claimed Ali kicked Holmes out of camp for being to fast.

Your ship here is sinking quickly just like it did in Classic.

[Dr. Z]

We have Adam Pollack's quoted opinion on it,Adam has written3 books on Johnson and must be considered the paramount expert on him.
We also have the fact that 10 months earlier Johnson weighed168lbs for a fight,and 2 years after the Choynski fight Johnson scaled 173lbs against Sam McVey.
How many times have you misspelt the word LIAR?

You are a bad liar. I will bet you any amount that Johnson was NOT listed at 173 vs Sam McVey! Try 178. Johnson was listed at 185 in 1902. But you are are dishonorable person and have a history of welching on bets.

Do not speak for Mr. Pollack. He knows what you say is false.