Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. Mixed legacies, dubious wins/ draws and lot of ducks?

[Ivich]

[QUOTE


Pollack is a " happy jack " writer who choses to most positive outcome for his fighter, and lists other sources to cover himself. He does not cover the downside of the men, nor does he go into detail of the lives of the fighters much outside the ring. He tends to look the other way.

I wrote to him while he was writing his Jack Johnson book regarding his KO loss to Klon***e. Jack was a Ko'd / did a quit job. He had 4 sources for the fight, and chose the best one for his subject material that says Johnson was DQ's for excessive clinching which was suggestive on one report while the other reports don't mention that! A pity because sometimes his research is good.

He gets hero worship for Ivich " Tony McVey " But he really does not comment much on the round by round action of the viewable films.

I think he was banned here and his wife suffered a bad KO loss in boxing as he tried to coach her. He would make a decent poster here. I'm not sure why he was banned.

No .this is completely untrue.

Johnson v Klon***e 1.
"It was stopped more on account of Johnson holding than of any rough milling "The Daily Inter Ocean.


" The bout between Klon***e and Jack Johnson .Klon***e was given the decision before the end of the 6th round." The Chicago Chronicle.

" John Johnson the discovery of George Siler,proved to be a husky fighter of enormous height,but insufficient skill to win from Klon***e,the latter getting the decision in the 5th round,after Lieutenant O Connor had called it off on account of the clinching tactics of the loser". The Chicago Times Herald.

"Johnson a long rangy colored man from Springfield looking something like Fitzsimmons in black,showed up well at the start,but weakened under the steady,but ponderous attack of Klon***e" Chicago Tribune.

" Johnson had an even break in the,1st 2nd and 3rd rounds.In the latter he landed a hard right swing on Klon***e's jaw that made the colored fellow totter.As is often the case,Klon***e fell toward Johnson ,and the latter,in not getting out of the way quick enough,spoiled his chances of winning the match at that time.Klon***e caught hold of Johnson ,and referee Hogan had trouble in getting him to break.
Had Klon***e fallen to the floor Johnson ,no doubt would have been the winner,but in the clinch Klon***e had time to recover. Lovers of boxing in Chicago fought well of Connors big colored fellow and would like to see him box Klon***e again."Daily Illinois State Register.

"Although he showed early flashes of his ability,his lack of weight,inadequate nutrition ,and lack of proper training led to early fatigue.
He had failed to impress the locals,although he had dropped Klon***e in the 2nd,he could not land very often.
When he grew tired,and/or was hurt he simply grabbed incessantly to survive ,until a Police Officer,who felt that he had had enough ,or was fed up with the excessive clinching requested the referee terminate the contest.Hence it was a either a tko or a dsq loss.
regardless ,contrary to the erroneous belief of some,Johnson was NOT dropped NOR did he quit."

Jack Johnson The Rise Adam Pollack Pages 46 &47

FIVE CONTEMPORARY RINGSIDE REPORTS PROVIDED BY POLLACK. THREE SAY THE FIGHT WAS STOPPED BECAUSE OF JOHNSONS CLINCHING ,NONE MENTION JOHNSON BEING KNOCKED DOWN .NONE MENTION HIS QUITTING.
DO STOP LYING!
SOME OF US HAVE ACTUALLY READ THESE BOOKS!

Pollack has written 12 books on heavyweight champions 12 .
Sullivan 2 to choose from
Corbett
Fitzsimmons
Jeffries
Hart
Burns
Johnson ,there are 3
Dempsey 2 to chose from

SO WHICH OF THEM HAVE YOU READ?
PLEASE NAME THOSE OF THE TWELVE TITLES YOU HAVE READ TO FORM YOUR NEGATIVE "HAPPY JACK" OPINION OF HIS WORK?

NB I have never seen a negative review of any of his books and I have six of them and am currently halfway through his latest , Pollack was banned here for mentioning/advertising, one of his books.

I was informed he could post here if he wanted to and I told him ,so far he has not shown any desire to, and with compulsive hating liars like you here, I can't say I blame him!

I do not have heroes, but I do have an an abiding hatred of deliberate agenda driven liars, and you are by far the worst I have encountered on the 4 boxing forums I post on.

Now I repeat, which of Pollack's books have you read to form your opinion he is a "happy jack" author?
No ducking ,obfuscation, no evading ,just answer my question?

[Dr. Z]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32093310]

No .this is completely untrue.

Johnson v Klon***e 1.
"It was stopped more on account of Johnson holding than of any rough milling "The Daily Inter Ocean.


" The bout between Klon***e and Jack Johnson .Klon***e was given the decision before the end of the 6th round." The Chicago Chronicle.

" John Johnson the discovery of George Siler,proved to be a husky fighter of enormous height,but insufficient skill to win from Klon***e,the latter getting the decision in the 5th round,after Lieutenant O Connor had called it off on account of the clinching tactics of the loser". The Chicago Times Herald.

"Johnson a long rangy colored man from Springfield looking something like Fitzsimmons in black,showed up well at the start,but weakened under the steady,but ponderous attack of Klon***e" Chicago Tribune.

" Johnson had an even break in the,1st 2nd and 3rd rounds.In the latter he landed a hard right swing on Klon***e's jaw that made the colored fellow totter.As is often the case,Klon***e fell toward Johnson ,and the latter,in not getting out of the way quick enough,spoiled his chances of winning the match at that time.Klon***e caught hold of Johnson ,and referee Hogan had trouble in getting him to break.
Had Klon***e fallen to the floor Johnson ,no doubt would have been the winner,but in the clinch Klon***e had time to recover. Lovers of boxing in Chicago fought well of Connors big colored fellow and would like to see him box Klon***e again."Daily Illinois State Register.

"Although he showed early flashes of his ability,his lack of weight,inadequate nutrition ,and lack of proper training led to early fatigue.
He had failed to impress the locals,although he had dropped Klon***e in the 2nd,he could not land very often.
When he grew tired,and/or was hurt he simply grabbed incessantly to survive ,until a Police Officer,who felt that he had had enough ,or was fed up with the excessive clinching requested the referee terminate the contest.Hence it was a either a tko or a dsq loss.
regardless ,contrary to the erroneous belief of some,Johnson was NOT dropped NOR did he quit."

Jack Johnson The Rise Adam Pollack Pages 46 &47

FIVE CONTEMPORARY RINGSIDE REPORTS PROVIDED BY POLLACK. THREE SAY THE FIGHT WAS STOPPED BECAUSE OF JOHNSONS CLINCHING ,NONE MENTION JOHNSON BEING KNOCKED DOWN .NONE MENTION HIS QUITTING.
DO STOP LYING!
SOME OF US HAVE ACTUALLY READ THESE BOOKS!

Pollack has written 12 books on heavyweight champions 12 .
Sullivan 2 to choose from
Corbett
Fitzsimmons
Jeffries
Hart
Burns
Johnson ,there are 3
Dempsey 2 to chose from

SO WHICH OF THEM HAVE YOU READ?
PLEASE NAME THOSE OF THE TWELVE TITLES YOU HAVE READ TO FORM YOUR NEGATIVE "HAPPY JACK" OPINION OF HIS WORK?

NB I have never seen a negative review of any of his books and I have six of them and am currently halfway through his latest , Pollack was banned here for mentioning/advertising, one of his books.
I was informed he could post here if he wanted to and I told him so,so far he has not shown any desire to.

I do not have heroes, but I do have an an abiding hatred of deliberate agenda driven liars, and you are by far the worst I have encountered on the 4 boxing forums I post on.

Now I repeat, which of Pollack's books have you read to form your opinion he is a "happy jack" author?
No ducking ,obfuscation, no evading just answer my question?

DUDE, just shut up. Two books on Johnson said he quit. Read the excellent Unforgivable Blacks or Papa Jack. Pollack writes in a way that's full of excuses for Jack. What are Klon***es excuses? Jack beat him once.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Dr. Z;n32093317]

DUDE, just shut up. Two books on Johnson said he quit. Read the excellent Unforgivable Blacks or Papa Jack. Pollack writes in a way that's full of excuses for Jack. What are Klon***es excuses? Jack beat him once.

My posted links prove you lied.

Neither Unforgiveable Blackness ,or Papa Jack,both of which I have,give their sources for their opinions .

POLLACK GIVES FIVE!

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION COWARD !

STOP DUCKING !

WHICH OF POLLACK'S BOOKS HAVE YOU READ?

[QueensburyRules]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32092687]

Dempsey was in Seattle appearing in Vaudeville all that month,neither man was in Canada that year.

Now, try as you may you cannot get around that,you may be able to disappear up your own anus when your claims are proven to be wrong ,but there is no way you can change their movements in December1921 .
Nor is there any possibility you can invent a gold strike in Saskatchewan in1921and convince anybody it actually happened.

Now why don't you do yourself a favour before making yourself look any more foolish than you usually do?
Read a book on the ****ing subject you ignoramus!

- - Similar longitudes and short hop via rail.

Fact: Jack didn’t work every day of that month.

Because of the secretive nature of the events, I can’t prove it any more than you can disprove.

However, we have the statement by Jack where when asked about the fight: “I always said I could beat Johnson,” as an affirmation…duh!!!

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n32093567][QUOTE=Ivich;n32092687]

- - Similar longitudes and short hop via rail.

Fact: Jack didn’t work every day of that month.

Because of the secretive nature of the events, I can’t prove it any more than you can disprove.

However, we have the statement by Jack where when asked about the fight: “I always said I could beat Johnson,” as an affirmation…duh!!!


[/QUOTE

You have no idea which days Dempsey worked in that December,you didn't even know he was in Seattle appearing in Vaudeville until I told you!
The man who created the myth, Ray Pearson who worked for the Chicago Tribune had it stated at the bottom of the article,[an article you have not even seen,] that it was a hoax.

"THIS IS THE FIRST OF A SERIES OF ARTICLES BY RAY PEARSON DESCRIBING MYTHICAL BATTLES BETWEEN PRESENT DAY CHAMPIONS POSSIBLE RESULTS OF BATTLES IF EACH OF THE PARTICIPANTS WAS IN HIS PRIME TODAY".


On December the 6th the Chicago Tribune further stated;

"The story of a mythical fight between Dempsey and Johnson . the first of a series of imaginary bouts ,had caused many tongues ,and ears to wag."

The Marian Star said ."Many local fans read part of the story,or all save the last paragraph at the end which related the mythical part."

The Chicago Tribune had 207 phone calls about the fight!
The Brooklyn Daily Eagle stated.
" Unfortunately for the Chicago Tribune and its "special ringside correspondent,neither Dempsey or Johnson were in Saskatoon last Saturday ."

The Butte Miner noted." Incidentally Dempsey was appearing in Seattle last Saturday night"


Editor of the Saskatchewan Newspaper confirmed that there was no Dempsey v Johnson fight there.
Dempsey was on the stage in Seattle that night.

Tell me what do your require to accept this fight never happened?

No mythical millionaire has ever claimed to have witnessed it.

Nobody associated with either man,either as a friend ,trainer,manager,or second has ever said the fight took place.

No contemporary boxer or other person involved in the game at the time has ever said it occurred.

The present train journey from Seattle to Saskatchewan by Amtrak takes a little over 4hours
.
The current driving distance is 1391 miles on modern roads, but we are talking about the roads and cars over a 100 years ago.

The approximate time taken in a modern car is 19hrs..

Produce the verified quote in which Dempsey says," I always said I could beat Johnson".
We both know you won't!


Now do stop trolling, its become very,very boring.

People will begin to believe you are even more fatuously ****** than you have so far proven yourself to be.
If that is at all possible.lol.

I had forgotten Orson Welles, in a radio broadcast in1939, convinced some gullible Americans that Martians had invaded the USA ,[New Jersey,] lol
It's just possible you are sincere lol!

[Willie Pep 229]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n32093567]

- - Similar longitudes and short hop via rail.

Fact: Jack didn’t work every day of that month.

Because of the secretive nature of the events, I can’t prove it any more than you can disprove.

However, we have the statement by Jack where when asked about the fight: “I always said I could beat Johnson,” as an affirmation…duh!!!

That's just Dempsey's wit playing off the reported outcome.

Strangler Lewis made three different challenges to Dempsey for a mixed match. Dempsey always replied "maybe" and it then had a week long life of it's own, with Lewis's Gold Dush Trio show getting a boast at the gate.

One of the possible mixed fights got streched out in the press long enough for detailed rules to be published. They're a hoot to read.

Anyway, my point is, Dempsey would never sour the reporter's article with a denial. He would play along. He was a mensch.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n32093752]

That's just Dempsey's wit playing off the reported outcome.

Strangler Lewis made three different challenges to Dempsey for a mixed match. Dempsey always replied "maybe" and it then had a week long life of it's own, with Lewis's Gold Dush Trio show getting a boast at the gate.

One of the possible mixed fights got streched out in the press long enough for detailed rules to be published. They're a hoot to read.

Anyway, my point is, Dempsey would never sour the reporter's article with a denial. He would play along. He was a mensch.

Exactly! Well put!

[Dr. Z]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32093344]

My posted links prove you lied.

Neither Unforgiveable Blackness ,or Papa Jack,both of which I have,give their sources for their opinions .

POLLACK GIVES FIVE!

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION COWARD !

STOP DUCKING !

WHICH OF POLLACK'S BOOKS HAVE YOU READ?

Look at the sources given Dummy. Both books say Jack quit vs. Klon***e. I do not have time for your games. As I said, I had a private conversation with Pollack. He is a happy Jack toward his subject material and injects his own political spin at times. It is no surprise that you like him, but warned you not to want to read his book of Mavin Hart, as he goes over the fight and Johnson was mediocre in it. He lists plenty of sources here and I must say he is the lone man that I can name to write a book on Marvin Hart.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Dr. Z;n32093905]

Look at the sources given Dummy. Both books say Jack quit vs. Klon***e. I do not have time for your games. As I said, I had a private conversation with Pollack. He is a happy Jack toward his subject material and injects his own political spin at times. It is no surprise that you like him, but warned you not to want to read his book of Mavin Hart, as he goes over the fight and Johnson was mediocre in it. He lists plenty of sources here and I must say he is the lone man that I can name to write a book on Marvin Hart.

I have an acknowledgement in Adam's first volume of Johnson,he asked me for any information I could dig up about Johnson's time in the UK.
I also ,along with respected guys like H.E Grant and Matt McGrain have one in the 2nd Dempsey book You remember Matt ? The guy who banned you for life from Classic 24
Neither of the books you quoted give a source for their opinions,.POLLACK GIVES 5 !
You have time to post here .but not to answer my question, which is;
WHICH OF ADAM'S BOOKS HAVE YOU READ TO FORM YOUR NEGATIVE "HAPPY JACK" OPINION OF HIS BOOKS?


SINCE YOU ARE TOO COWARDLY TO ANSWER MY QUESTION , I WILL DO IT FOR YOU,YOU HAVE READ NONE OF THEM.

NOBODY ELSE AGREES WITH YOUR BIGOTED OPINION,AN OPINION BASED ON NEVER ACTUALLY HAVING READ HIS BOOKS

It might interest you to know that Kevin R Smith an author you like to quote when it suits you,gave this book a glowing 5 star revue on Amazon.
92% of the reviews were 5 star ,8 % 4 star and the book is currently on sale for over £ 91!
" The best man I ever fought was Jack Johnson",Jess Willard.

I HAVE ADAM'S FULL ACCOUNT OF THE HART FIGHT, IT'S IN HIS FIRST JOHNSON VOLUME ,
THE ONE I JUST REFERRED TO! NOT ONLY ARE YOU A COMPULSIVE LIAR , YOU ARE A PROVEN COWARD ,A SERIAL DUCKER.
DR DONALD Z , YOU ARE A DISGRACE!

QUACK ! QUACK ! QUACK! PATHETIC!

ps Good News for Ghost Of Dempsey and other Dempsey admirers,Adam is writing a third volume on Jack!

[Willow The Wisp]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32093344]

My posted links prove you lied.

Neither Unforgiveable Blackness ,or Papa Jack,both of which I have,give their sources for their opinions .

POLLACK GIVES FIVE!

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION COWARD !

STOP DUCKING !

WHICH OF POLLACK'S BOOKS HAVE YOU READ?

Fine work. I'd chosen against gracing this dung heap of a thread. I suppose that makes me Intolerant.