Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. Mixed legacies, dubious wins/ draws and lot of ducks?

[Ivich]

Can we put this (not so) urban legend (using the term very lightly) behind us with some good old fashioned common sense. !921 the year... Many modern highways, the nice Freeway system, Jet liners flying everywhere... Oh wait! Maybe not. So how does one wind up in of all places, Saskatoon? I mean we are not talking about Chicago, New York, or Toronto, Montreal... What would put either man in such a backwater? And in those days going to such a place was not easy. There would have had to be a tremendous paper trail, and there would have to be a logical reason. To at least start with...

Like you I assumed everyone knew this was a hoax.
1 How would you get enough backers to finance this?
2.What would be their motive, with no film being taken ,and no opportunity for a reimbursement on their initial financial out lay?
3..How would you get everyone involved to stay silent about it?
4.How could anyone be so credulous as to think logistically and geographically this would ever be a realistic proposition in Saskatoon?

I guess commonsense just ain't that common!
NB A 43years old Johnson did not obtain his release from Leavenworth Prison until July9th 1921.
Johnson was in Canada in1909,1923 ,and 1924,but he wasn't there in1921.

.........................................

[Willie Pep 229]

If common sense was common we wouldn't have the phrase.

I thought we totally debunked this nonsense last year. I guess everytime a new poster with an agenda comes to the board we will have to do it again.

[kara]

LOL!!! thats right!!! I forgot about that. Yes it was lol

Wepner began to shoot on Andre with left hooks

[Dr. Z]

Can we put this (not so) urban legend (using the term very lightly) behind us with some good old fashioned common sense. !921 the year... Many modern highways, the nice Freeway system, Jet liners flying everywhere... Oh wait! Maybe not. So how does one wind up in of all places, Saskatoon? I mean we are not talking about Chicago, New York, or Toronto, Montreal... What would put either man in such a backwater? And in those days going to such a place was not easy. There would have had to be a tremendous paper trail, and there would have to be a logical reason. To at least start with...

Well , NY and Chicago were out. Johnson wasn't allowed to fight there in 1921 and would have to pay taxes if he did. He needed the money and being out of prison this was the way he could make it.

According to the report he made a good showing until the 6th round. Dempsey was embarrassed by his side show fight, like Tyson Fury was. A few rich men put on the fight, just like Saudi Arabia. Where else did Dempsey fight? Shelby Montana that power house fight town? Yep. And Johnson that southern Mecca of boxing in Havana. Johnson went on tour in Mexico. He even fought in South America. Suddenly Saskatoon Canada does not seem so far fetched. Urban legends aside.

Here you go.

https://roberto00.wordpress.com/2020...eydec-10-1921/

There is a lot of controversy in Dempsey's fights . And Johnson's fights where he alleges fixes, and was booed out the ring for not trying in some of them, and fouling in others.

[Ivich]

If common sense was common we wouldn't have the phrase.

I thought we totally debunked this nonsense last year. I guess everytime a new poster with an agenda comes to the board we will have to do it again.

I'm afraid so.

[Ivich]

Well , NY and Chicago were out. Johnson wasn't allowed to fight there in 1921 and would have to pay taxes if he did. He needed the money and being out of prison this was the way he could make it.

According to the report he made a good showing until the 6th round. Dempsey was embarrassed by his side show fight, like Tyson Fury was. A few rich man put on the fight, just like Saudi Arabia. Where else did Dempsey fight? Shelby Montana that power house fight town? Yep. And Johnson that southern Mecca of boxing in Havana. Johnson went on tour in Mexico. He even fought in South America. Suddenly Saskatoon Canada does not seem so far fetched. Urban legends aside.

Here you go.

https://roberto00.wordpress.com/2020...eydec-10-1921/

There is a lot of controversy in Dempsey's fights . And Johnson's fights where he alleges fixes, and was booed out the ring for not trying in some of them, and fouling in others.

Johnson gave an exhibition in Pittsburgh 2 months after coming out of prison.Sept 1921.
In 1922 Johnson gave 4 exhibitions in Chicago,1 with Floyd Johnson and 3 with George Godfrey.

In1923 Johnson fought Farmer Lodge and Jack Thompson in Cuba.
In1924 Johnson gave 4 exhibitions in Canada 3 with Battling Siki and 1 with another.
His movements in his post prison years are well documented, so why on earth you persist in giving this proven hoax credence is a mystery?
Yes Dempsey fought in Shelby Montana and bankrupted 3 banks in the process.

You equate that with oil rich Saudi and the ease of travel today? How dumb are you?

Everyone here knows you will take any opportunity to defame Johnson its no secret!
If you can combine that with illustrating you also well known antipathy to Dempsey,its a double whammy for you isnt it!

And ,if there is no opportunity, to tear down these dead men's reputations you will create one,as you have here with this spurious agenda driven BS.
You have no interest in the truth about this subject,it's just a stick to beat Johnson with and its blatantly obvious.
I've provided the provenance of this myth ,the name of the writer, the date, the newspaper that printed it, and the whereabouts of Jack Dempsey on the given date,but you don't want to address that,you just want to continue to smear 2 great fighters and you have a long history of doing so.
You are a virus that should be eradicated for the health of this forum.
The up side is with your agenda driven antics is that posters are beginning to see the real you, and that is very welcome.

Johnson was booed during the Battling Jim fight because the public were unaware he was fighting with a broken bone in his arm.

He was dsq'd just once in a 34 year ,77 fight career and there is a lot of controversy surrounding that decision.

" After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow."
Q Why would Johnson need to foul Jeannette ,whom he had floored multiple times in their series of fights?
I've resisted getting into an interminable round the houses argument about this and I will continue to do so.

Frankly I'm all Jack Johnsoned out!
Being the rabid hater you are any responses to your flys are meat and drink to you.

Well, I wish you joy of them because I don't think you will find many takers here.

[Dr. Z]

Johnson gave an exhibition in Pittsburgh 2 months after coming out of prison.Sept 1921.
In 1922 Johnson gave 4 exhibitions in Chicago,1 with Floyd Johnson and 3 with George Godfrey.

In1923 Johnson fought Farmer Lodge and Jack Thompson in Cuba.
In1924 Johnson gave 4 exhibitions in Canada 3 with Battling Siki and 1 with another.
His movements in his post prison years are well documented, so why on earth you persist in giving this proven hoax credence is a mystery?
Yes Dempsey fought in Shelby Montana and bankrupted 3 banks in the process.

You equate that with oil rich Saudi and the ease of travel today? How dumb are you?


And ,if there is no opportunity, to tear down these dead men's reputations you will create one,as you have here with this spurious agenda driven BS.
You have no interest in the truth about this subject,it's just a stick to beat Johnson with and its blatantly obvious.
I've provided the provenance of this myth ,the name of the writer, the date, the newspaper that printed it, and the whereabouts of Jack Dempsey on the given date,but you don't want to address that,you just want to continue to smear 2 great fighters and you have a long history of doing so.
You are a virus that should be eradicated for the health of this forum.
The up side is with your agenda driven antics is that posters are beginning to see the real you, and that is very welcome.

Johnson was booed during the Battling Jim fight because the public were unaware he was fighting with a broken bone in his arm.

He was dsq'd just once in a 34 year ,77 fight career and there is a lot of controversy surrounding that decision.

" After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow."
Q Why would Johnson need to foul Jeannette ,whom he had floored multiple times in their series of fights?
I've resisted getting into an interminable round the houses argument about this and I will continue to do so.

Frankly I'm all Jack Johnsoned out!
Being the rabid hater you are any responses to your flys are meat and drink to you.

Well, I wish you joy of them because I don't think you will find many takers here.

>>What do you know? Now much!


>>> Johnson's match in Cuba with Jack Thompson

"So bad was the bout that the boxing commissioner, sitting at the ringside, fined each fighter $500 for stalling. In the 10th round the referee left the ring (and replaced by promoter Sam Tolan), while a shower of cushions, pop bottles and other missiles were hurled at the boxers." Tacoma News Tribune. Wire Service report states no official decision was rendered

And Lodge claimed his was fouled and low blowed

Havana Commmission ruled on May 15 that Lodge was kayoed, not fouled as he claimed. A return match was called for, but Lodge was later declared unfit to box for at least six weeks

You fool there was not controversy in his Jeannettte DQ loss, Joshsnon went low and the doctor confirmed it!

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled

After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.

I know that the Saudi oil money attracts fighters, my point was there have been may fights in less than normal places.


There are plenty of other fights fouls, quit jobs and booed fights by Johnson. I don't write what was said,I only report it. This is a boxing history forum you dope.

You continue to lie, tell a false narrative, post about me in other forum, and conceal yourself under the freak free mason grab with their odd symbols. I hope posters don't follow you. Happy Birthday by the way.


- Dr. Z

[Ivich]

>>What do you know? Now much!


>>> Johnson's match in Cuba with Jack Thompson




And Lodge claimed his was fouled and low blowed




You fool there was not controversy in his Jeannettte DQ loss, Joshsnon went low and the doctor confirmed it!





I know that the Saudi oil money attracts fighters, my point was there have been may fights in less than normal places.


There are plenty of other fights fouls, quit jobs and booed fights by Johnson. I don't write what was said,I only report it. This is a boxing history forum you dope.

You continue to lie, tell a false narrative, post about me in other forum, and conceal yourself under the freak free mason grab with their odd symbols. I hope posters don't follow you. Happy Birthday by the way.


- Dr. Z

"What do I know? Now much?"?????


Reports of the Jeannette fight vary widely ,I know because I have them! You don't ,all you have is a cryptic sentence from Box Rec which say Johnson was having his way with Jeannette and that he was "alleged" to have fouled him.
Why would he do so, it was early in the fight Johnson was in no trouble?

What would be his motive?

Jeannette had never managed to beat him despite several tries,tries in which he was floored multiple times,tries in which he never managed to floor Johnson.

Lodge's claim for a foul was overruled by the commission.

Johnson was 45 years old when he fought, Thompson he was finished as a fighter.
What is the following supposed to mean?

" conceal yourself under the freak free mason grab with their odd symbols. I hope posters don't follow you."?????
Johnson did not fight Dempsey, it doesn't matter whether you can admit that,it doesn't matter what you think, because you wouldn't recognize the truth if it jumped up and bit you in your deranged ass!

You are a nut job! Have fun with your absurd thread.

[QueensburyRules]

Can we put this (not so) urban legend (using the term very lightly) behind us with some good old fashioned common sense. !921 the year... Many modern highways, the nice Freeway system, Jet liners flying everywhere... Oh wait! Maybe not. So how does one wind up in of all places, Saskatoon? I mean we are not talking about Chicago, New York, or Toronto, Montreal... What would put either man in such a backwater? And in those days going to such a place was not easy. There would have had to be a tremendous paper trail, and there would have to be a logical reason. To at least start with...

- - No, Vitch is misreporting the article that he read while choking down ungutted snails. That you didn't know that Saskatoon was the site of the biggest gold strike and wealthiest town in the history of the world in their heyday is on you.

Thus extensive rail service to Saskatoon that still exists.

Really now, all that reading of Ginsberg and Kerouak has dumbed you down to their decrepit levels though you show occasionally signs of wanting to break free of that dumbdome.

When asked, Dempsey said he always knew he could whoop Johnson, so why wouldn't he and JJ split a fortune in a private gentleman's club scrap in their basement where millions were wagered?

[Ivich]

- - No, Vitch is misreporting the article that he read while choking down ungutted snails. That you didn't know that Saskatoon was the site of the biggest gold strike and wealthiest town in the history of the world in their heyday is on you.

Thus extensive rail service to Saskatoon that still exists.

Really now, all that reading of Ginsberg and Kerouak has dumbed you down to their decrepit levels though you show occasionally signs of wanting to break free of that dumbdome.

When asked, Dempsey said he always knew he could whoop Johnson, so why wouldn't he and JJ split a fortune in a private gentleman's club scrap in their basement where millions were wagered?

Except the writer of the piece admitted at the end of it that he made the whole thing up,and the editor of his newspaper confirmed it,plus Dempsey was on a stage in Seattle in a vaudeville act on Saturday December the 3rd .Oh and the gold strike was in April 1923,2 years after the fight had supposedly happened!


Just minor things I know. lol