Did Monzon retire to avoid Hagler?

[The D3vil]

Nah, Hagler took two loses before he got his shot in '80.

I just think they missed each other.

[_Rexy_]

I doubt that's why. Hagler never had any real praise or hype on his come up. in 1977 Hagler had just finished his rubber match against Willie Monroe and was still having the majority of his fights in New England venues.

[Slugfester]

Monzon did not lose his title to a welterweight, yes, but he never fought a former welterweight of Leonard's caliber either. When Leonard fought Hagler he hadn't lost a thing visibly, despite his 3 year layoff. You don't get burned out or punch drunk with Leonard's style with only 34 (mostly easy) fights behind you, many of them with outclassed nobodies early in his career. He only fought 249 professional rounds before meeting Hagler, a mere pittance, an apprenticeship number of contests. Leonard was not shot and not noticeably diminished, and much higher on anyone's ATG list than either Griffith or the Butter℈m. Not saying Leonard would beat Monzon (he would not be the favorite.) But the fact remains (for me) that Monzon never fought a welter weight that was even close to Leonard or Hearns at the time Hagler fought them. Whereas Marv, three weeks shy of 33 with his much more self-destructive style, is the one who was going over the hill. Leonard did not look a whit different from the Leonard who could have fought him three years earlier would have fought. That is much different from Ali who (at a younger age) had to change his style to continue fighting after his layoff.

Mind you, I am only comparing their opposition from former welterweights, not through their whole careers. From former welterweights, Hagler had far superior opposition, both in absolute age and proximity to prime.
It has not even been mentioned that Hagler's welterweight opposition was in another class altogether from Monzon's.

[Willie Pep 229]

Mickey Duff tells a story about Hagler accusing him of ripping off John Mugabi.Duff was incensed and showed Marvin the receipts from Mugabi's fights and told him,about the luxury cars and expensive watches Mugabi bought .
In his autobiography Duff said Hagler must have gone away and done some checking of his own because when both of them were sitting down at a WBC Convention,Hagler stood up and said," I want to say something here,I said something about Mickey ,he knows what it was and so do I,and now I want to apologise to him for it." Class act Marvin Hagler.

I like how Hagler was watching out for a fellow fighter despite he was his opponent.

[DooGee#33]

I don't believe he did. I think Carlos retired because it was the right time for him. He put in work. 14 title defenses. Champion for a long time.

[Ivich]

Monzon did not lose his title to a welterweight, yes, but he never fought a former welterweight of Leonard's caliber either. When Leonard fought Hagler he hadn't lost a thing visibly, despite his 3 year layoff. You don't get burned out or punch drunk with Leonard's style with only 34 (mostly easy) fights behind you, many of them with outclassed nobodies early in his career. He only fought 249 professional rounds before meeting Hagler, a mere pittance, an apprenticeship number of contests. Leonard was not shot and not noticeably diminished, and much higher on anyone's ATG list than either Griffith or the Butter℈m. Not saying Leonard would beat Monzon (he would not be the favorite.) But the fact remains (for me) that Monzon never fought a welter weight that was even close to Leonard or Hearns at the time Hagler fought them. Whereas Marv, three weeks shy of 33 with his much more self-destructive style, is the one who was going over the hill. Leonard did not look a whit different from the Leonard who could have fought him three years earlier would have fought. That is much different from Ali who (at a younger age) had to change his style to continue fighting after his layoff.

Mind you, I am only comparing their opposition from former welterweights, not through their whole careers. From former welterweights, Hagler had far superior opposition, both in absolute age and proximity to prime.
It has not even been mentioned that Hagler's welterweight opposition was in another class altogether from Monzon's.

Griffith had proved himself as a middleweight,by winning the title,and he was the number one challenger for Monzon's title.
Griffith had begun fighting middleweights 6 years earlier.
.Leonard had never fought a middleweight and was unranked,he had not fought for 3 years ,and had just 1 fight in the previous 5 years.

Hagler was a justifiable 3/1 favourite.

Napoles was the reigning welter weight champion when he challenged Monzon.

Leonard was champion of nothing.

If anyone thinks Monzon ducked Hagler who would not win the title for a further 3 years after Monzon retired,perhaps they should look at this below?.

• Hagler and Leonard fought for the WBC title only. The WBA stripped Hagler for not fighting Herol Graham, its top-ranked contender. The IBF did not strip Hagler, but it refused to sanction the fight and said the title would be declared vacant if Hagler should lose to Leonard.

[Willow The Wisp]

Griffith had proved himself as a middleweight,by winning the title,and he was the number one challenger for Monzon's title.
Griffith had begun fighting middleweights 6 years earlier.
.Leonard had never fought a middleweight and was unranked,he had not fought for 3 years ,and had just 1 fight in the previous 5 years.

Hagler was a justifiable 3/1 favourite.

Napoles was the reigning welter weight champion when he challenged Monzon.

Leonard was champion of nothing.

If anyone thinks Monzon ducked Hagler who would not win the title for a further 3 years after Monzon retired,perhaps they should look at this below?.

• Hagler and Leonard fought for the WBC title only. The WBA stripped Hagler for not fighting Herol Graham, its top-ranked contender. The IBF did not strip Hagler, but it refused to sanction the fight and said the title would be declared vacant if Hagler should lose to Leonard.

Good post, and great guardianship of the truth. Almost vomited when I saw Napoles being omitted.
It is off topic, but in my mind, Sugar Ray Leonard was the best fighter that I ever saw live and that is really saying something. Notwithstanding, Jose Napoles was every inch his equal. As always, I preface with IMO.

This thread topic is....well. You know.

[Ivich]

Good post, and great guardianship of the truth. Almost vomited when I saw Napoles being omitted.
It is off topic, but in my mind, Sugar Ray Leonard was the best fighter that I ever saw live and that is really saying something. Notwithstanding, Jose Napoles was every inch his equal. As always, I preface with IMO.

This thread topic is....well. You know.

I've given the OP until Friday evening to produce details of this fictitious fight between Monzon and Jorge Fernandez that he says happened in January 1966 a mythical fight in which he says Fernandez knocked Monzon down and may have ko'd him if he hadn't been so short and over the hill at 30!! lol

[Dr. Z]

Yes he did ,its a great pity that such a fine champ did not live into old age so he could enjoy the fruits of his wonderful career

Monzon has fighter after he retied. Many of them are with women. Read " A fistful of murder." A pity he did not live to age old age you say?

Throughout, the reader gains insight into what made Monzon such an omnipotent presence in the squared circle, and also what a piece of **** he was outside of it: abusive, arrogant, antisocial. He was a product of brutal poverty who “created a mask for himself, a kind of grandiose, all-powerful bully who was always in control… like all narcissists, his image was fragile; he was never far from becoming completely unhinged.”

Those familiar with the Monzon story know how it all turned out: a dozen years after his retirement, the burned-out, coked-up ex-champ was convicted of strangling his ex-girlfriend, model Alicia Muņiz, before tossing her off the balcony of an apartment in the resort city of Mar del Plata. Six years later he died in a car crash while on furlough from prison, bringing the curtain down on a wild cautionary tale. Alicia and Carlos in happier days.

Of the aftermath of the murder, Stradley generously quotes from Argentine columnists and primary sources like Monzon’s son Abel, while also bemoaning the tawdriness of the whole tableaux: “Ultimately, the Monzon story became less an opportunity for sociological debate than a morbid peep show, a chance to show lurid photos of Alicia smashed on the bricks, her bare legs still beautiful even as the life flooded out of her. It was a big nasty dollop of Mar del Plata decadence, overflowing with surface glitter and cheap celebrity.” Monzon and Giminez.

Although the only people who definitively know what happened between Carlos Monzon and Alicia Muņiz are no longer with us, Stradley offers readers his own theory of what unfolded, this being that Monzon, “an angry, illiterate man consumed by petty jealousies,” flew into a rage when he realized both how far he’d fallen and that Muniz would never reconcile with him. Based on the autopsy reports, it’s a credible hypothesis. Husk of a Champion: Monzon in prison near the end.

Towards the end of the book, Stradley brings the story up to date, summarizing a thirteen-part biopic entitled Monzon that aired in Argentina in 2019 and recently appeared on Netflix, and contemplating the various warring factions in the fighter’s homeland, those being the feminists who vandalize Monzon statues and protest his deification, and the apologists who play down his violent nature while portraying him as a sort of cursed saint. Curiously, this latter group includes Susana Giminez, the glamorous actress who often experienced Monzon’s wrath first hand.

[Willie Pep 229]

Monzon has fighter after he retied. Many of them are with women. Read " A fistful of murder." A pity he did not live to age old age you say?

Not Monzon - Hagler he said.

Interesting excerpt though.