Did Monzon retire to avoid Hagler?

[Dr. Z]

@ Ivich,

Monzon was decked by Jorge Fernandez in Jan 1966 in a bout for the South American Middleweight Title. I know this and I do not think such information can be found box rec and wiki.

Fernandez a former welter weight challenger ( Monzon loved to fight the lower weight guys ) who was only 5'5 1/2 " tall went the distance, flooring Monzon along the way. But he was too short and at tail end of his career. If he was in his prime, who knows?! It would be 2 years until Jorge Fernadez fought agin!

Monzon won a close fight 237 to 235 on 2 judges score cards over Fernadez, but this wasn't a ten point must scoring type of match, I think.

I do not have the offical score cards and the scoring of each round.

Interesting is it not?

[Marchegiano]

Monzon retired because he had a fat movie deal in his pocket. He was a hero in his homeland.

Snap, 50 points, thread over. ... far as I am concerned anyway.

[Ivich]

@ Ivich,

Monzon was decked by Jorge Fernandez in Jan 1966 in a bout for the South American Middleweight Title. I know this and I do not think such information can be found box rec and wiki.

Fernandez a former welter weight challenger ( Monzon loved to fight the lower weight guys ) who was only 5'5 1/2 " tall went the distance, flooring Monzon along the way. But he was too short and at tail end of his career. If he was in his prime, who knows?! It would be 2 years until Jorge Fernadez fought agin!

Monzon won a close fight 237 to 235 on 2 judges score cards over Fernadez, but this wasn't a ten point must scoring type of match, I think.

I do not have the offical score cards and the scoring of each round.

Interesting is it not?

If it happened and I say IF, what would it mean Fernandez has 84 kos in117 fights,he was a puncher.
And IF it happened it certainly did NOT happen inJanuary 1966!
Monzon fought Fernandez twice
On the 3rd of September 1966.Monzon won a Unanimous Decision.Fernandez was the heavier man.

Fernandez then fought Norberto Juncos 4 months later koing him in2 rds,then ,on the 3rd of March 1967 he ko'd Teddy Wright in2 rds.then he drew with Charley Bad News Austin,before challenging Monzon for his SouthAmerican title .

Fernandez did not retire until AFTER the second Monzon fight when Monzon again won a Unanimous Decision ,defending the South American title he had won from Fernandez.

You say Fernandez was not prime when he lost to Monzon? He was 30 years old for their first fight and 31 for their second.
Yet you say Briscoe at 35 ,looked the same against Hagler as he did against Monzon when he was 29?lol


When he returned to the ring after 2 years absence Fernadez won the Spanish middleweight title.by ko.


PROVIDE PROOF THAT MONZON FOUGHT FERNANDEZ IN JANUARY 1966.

PROVIDE PROOF THAT FERNANDEZ EVER KNOCKED MONZON DOWN.

[Dr. Z]

PROVIDE PROOF THAT MONZON FOUGHT FERNANDEZ IN JANUARY 1966.

PROVIDE PROOF THAT FERNANDEZ EVER KNOCKED MONZON DOWN.

I told you it did, and there is not any internet proof of such an event that you have acces to. That does not mean it did not happen! The former welter 5'5 1/2 " Fennandez did in fact put Monzon down. Now go do your own research for a change.

Este viejo es estúpido y loco!

[Ivich]

I told you it did, and there is not any internet proof of such an event that you have aces to. That does not mean it did not happen! The former welter 5'5 1/2 " Fennandez did in fact put Monzon down. Now go do your own research for a change.

Este viejo es estúpido y loco!

Box rec does not list the fight neither does CBZ,nor Wikipedia, yet you expect me to accept the word of you ,a proven liar?

YOU MADE THE CLAIM ITS UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE THE PROOF!

Question for you.
Fernandez won the South American Light Middle Title on the11th of March 1966.

He won the South American Middleweight title on the 10th of June 1966 , relinquishing the Light Middle title when he did so.
He defended the Middleweight title against Monzon on the 3rd of September 1966
losing the title via unanimous decision.

IF he had fought and lost to Monzon in Jan1966,how come he was still.South American Champion ?

You claim Fernandez might have ko'd Monzon but he was too short to do so.

You claim Monzon selected short, non punchers.
Monzon was still a relative novice when he got his chance to fight Fernandez for the latters title .should he have said ,I'm passing on this opportunity because he is too short?

Instead of which he fought and beat him,twice,and Fernandez was a serious puncher!
Height is not a bar to greatness.
Previous great middleweight champs include.

Greb 5' 8"
Walker 5'8"
Zale 5'7 1/2"
Tiger 5'8"
Alvarez 5'8"
Cerdan 5'6"
Garcia 5'6"
Lamotta 5'8"

Monzon's title challengers
Bouttier 5' 9 1/2"x2
Mundine 5' 11 1/2"
Benvenuti 5'11"x 2
Bogs 5'91/2"
Tonna 5' 91/2"x2
Compare very favourably in height to them.


What has happened here is you have once again been caught out in a lie,similar to when you invented a quote by Lennox Lewis stating, that after beating Ossie Ocasio he said, " I'll fight no more southpaws".The problem with that being Ocasio was NOT a southpaw! lol
So once again we have a claim by you that you are never going to back up with proof when requested to do so.
Sound familiar?
Remember when Travestny and I asked you to provide names of promoters,dates,venues,purses of $30,000 or more that Johnson turned down?
You claimed those fights could have been made in Russia ,Australia,France, and the offers were there, yet when asked to provide proof of them actually being offered you produced nothing.
I'm always happy to do my research and produce proof to back up what I say.
. Bottom Line .You have ducked the request for proof yet again!

You are a serial, hating LIAR!

NB In their rematch Hagler stopped Antuofermo on cuts caused by butts.Antuofermo would have been cake for Monzon.

A flurry of rights from Hagler had taken him to the ropes; then, as he straightened to escape, heads collided. An accidental butt, seemingly on Antuofermo's part. But suddenly the mask of blood was there again. Blindly he hung on as more of Hagler's rights pounded him and, with the bell, just as blindly he started out at the crowd, oblivious of the necessity for speed in getting the cut attended to. In his corner, assistant trainer Panama Lewis was screaming incomprehensibly and Freddie Brown, Antuofermo's veteran trainer, a cut man of extraordinary skills, was in the middle of the ring, shouting at the referee. Brown contended that Hagler had butted Antuofermo and wanted Referee Davey Pearl to stop the fight and rule it a technical draw. Nearly three minutes passed before the fight was resumed, an extra two minutes that Antuofermo and Brown desperately needed.

And then, coldly, precisely, Hagler went to work on the cut again, opening it once more with a five-blow combination that started with a right uppercut. "I don't care how I did it," the champion said later. "That's the game of boxing." No one could contradict him on that score or blame him for cynicism. The sad thing was that the fight had to happen at all, that a fighter as skilled and as consummately professional as Hagler had to earn his money this way.

The patched-up Antuofermo came out for the third, and Hagler put him down briefly with a straight left. And then that tormented, flailing courage of Antuofermo's was seen for a moment or two as he pressed forward. Effortlessly, Hagler kept him at bay with steady rights. There was more patching by Brown before the fourth, and then a hard right opened a new cut under the right eye. Finally an apparent butt by Hagler made the worst split of all--just above the same eye. Arms waving, his mouth full of cotton, Brown was in midring again to protest at the bell, but in Antuofermo's corner Tony Carione. Antuofermo's co-manager, had already conceded.

Monzon fought some men coming up in weight,men like ex welter Griffith and Napoles the reigning welterweight champ.

.Hagler did the same when he fought
ex welter Leonard
ex welter Hearns
ex light middle Antuofermo
ex light weight Duran
But I'm not screaming that Hagler feasted on smaller men, he like Monzon, fought who was around. .
NOW I'D LIKE.
PROOF THAT MONZON FOUGHT FERNANDEZ IN JANUARY 1966
AND PROOF THAT HE KNOCKED HIM DOWN
I'LL GIVE YOU A REASONABLE TIME TO PRODUCE IT.
IT'S TUESDAY AFTERNOON HERE IN THE UK HOW ABOUT WE SAY FRIDAY AFTERNOON IS THE CUT OFF POINT?

IF YOU PROVIDE THE INFORMATION I SHALL SAY YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG,

I'LL EVEN MAKE A THREAD SAYING SO!

IF HOWEVER, BY FRIDAY EVENING YOU HAVEN'T PRODUCED IT I SHALL SAY IT IS CONFIRMED THAT
YOU WERE LYING.

[Willow The Wisp]

Different eras. Good posts here by Ivich and others. The question has been answered.

[billeau2]

Monzon retired because he had a fat movie deal in his pocket. He was a hero in his homeland.

Interesting aside: Hagler also had movie deals lined up in Italy when he retired.

[Ivich]

Interesting aside: Hagler also had movie deals lined up in Italy when he retired.

Yes he did ,its a great pity that such a fine champ did not live into old age so he could enjoy the fruits of his wonderful career

[Willow The Wisp]

Yes he did ,its a great pity that such a fine champ did not live into old age so he could enjoy the fruits of his wonderful career

Very tragic. Those tragic Middleweights. A long, sad story.
Marvin was a good guy. He did a lot of nice thing behind the scenes.

[Ivich]

Very tragic. Those tragic Middleweights. A long, sad story.
Marvin was a good guy. He did a lot of nice thing behind the scenes.

Mickey Duff tells a story about Hagler accusing him of ripping off John Mugabi.Duff was incensed and showed Marvin the receipts from Mugabi's fights and told him,about the luxury cars and expensive watches Mugabi bought .
In his autobiography Duff said Hagler must have gone away and done some checking of his own because when both of them were sitting down at a WBC Convention,Hagler stood up and said," I want to say something here,I said something about Mickey ,he knows what it was and so do I,and now I want to apologise to him for it." Class act Marvin Hagler.