What's the real story behind Floyd Patterson and his subjugation to Sonny Liston

[Ivich]

But not in reach..

I was addressing this remark
" Liston, who towered over him in height"

[Ivich]

I think that's what Cus saw. But Patterson hit like a freight train, bigger than Frazier, so I don't know why he didn't think a knockout could happen

I don't think Patterson hit quite as hard as Frazier.
"bigger than Frazier," Are you saying Patterson was bigger than Frazier?

[QueensburyRules]

queensbury i noticed something a common thread with all your posts. you like klitscko, you like calazage, you like marciano, you like cooney you like bugner etc etc
you hate ali, you hate lewis, you hate mayweather...etc etc
- i am not gonna accuse or link up your views let's just say "they are coming over here taking our jobs and selling drugs!!!!"
only kidding!!

- - Also rate Foreman, Langford, Monzon, John L, Sal Sanchez, both Dempseys, AJ, Usyk, Aaron Pryor, Arguello, and really, too many others, dozens upon dozens.

Thats why I’m here and not on Sony granny knifing circle.

[Marchegiano]

Patterson was ejther , the champion, or a top ten ranked heavyweight for 14 years,anyone beat that?

Wlad maybe? That's interesting ... I'll be doing some tallying. Tore my rotator, so, it'll take me a while with just my left doing the typing and the mouse. That said if anyone already has years as champ+top ten contender for HWs I'd be very grateful ... as would my left arm

[Tanakasensei]

I don't think Patterson hit quite as hard as Frazier.
"bigger than Frazier," Are you saying Patterson was bigger than Frazier?

He had more force in his hooks. And yeah..his arms were more buff.

[_Rexy_]

Liston was one inch taller than Patterson.

yeah, and just like today, it's not height classes.


Liston also had an 84 inch reach. Wilder has 83, Fury has 85

[_Rexy_]

I was addressing this remark
" Liston, who towered over him in height"

They why did you quote me, when I never said that?

[_Rexy_]

Floyd was known for his confidence issues. I haven't read up on the personality of every single HW champ but among those I have, Patterson seems like he had more self doubt than any of the rest. So having to fight Liston, arguably the most intimidating fighter ever, it's not surprising that Floyd wasn't full of belief. His own trainer expecting him to lose made that worse. To his credit, he did eventually overrule Cus and insist on taking the fight.

In terms of why it was a bad style match-up, it depends how specific/general you want to be about it. In the rock/paper/scissors of boxing, shorter aggressive guys do well against guys who come to box because they can often match them for foot speed and hand speed, and they normally cut off the ring well. Once they do, their shorter arms then become an advantage because they go to work inside or at mid-range, where a taller guy might prefer to clinch.

Guys like Liston and Foreman spend the whole fight trying to force their opponents to stand still and trade power. So having a smaller guy come straight at them is exactly what they want. You say that Liston wasn't as good when guys moved away from him, but that's a lot easier said than done and I don't think Patterson had the qualities to pull it off. Frazier changed up his approach for the Foreman rematch, had some good moments but still got stopped.

It's not just a skills things, it's mentality. Shorter guys who can outbox bigger opponents are usually very confident and relaxed, like Whittaker, Mayweather, Pep. Patterson just didn't have the type of mindset to fight that way.

One thing to note, which I think is lost in this thread. Floyd had the costume for the SECOND fight. His confidence was already destroyed from being stopped so quickly in the first fight.

[Ivich]

They why did you quote me, when I never said that?

You're saying he hit harder with his hook than Frazier? "his arms were more buff"? What does that mean?

Patterson won the title weighing 182 1/2lbs Frazier was 205lbs Frazier was considerably bigger physically than Patterson.

[Ivich]

One thing to note, which I think is lost in this thread. Floyd had the costume for the SECOND fight. His confidence was already destroyed from being stopped so quickly in the first fight.

Patterson gave an interview prior to the Liston rematch, in it he said there would be no more disguises.