Was Lamotta A Top 10 MW all time

[Slugfester]

He fought Robinson 6 times, which makes your resume right there. Gave him brutal fights. If not for Robinson, who knows? I see him beating most middleweight champions. He beat Cerdan who I also see beating most MW champs. We know Jacob had one of the best chins ever, if not the best. Chuvalo might be his only rival. Or is Jake the rival?

Is Lamotta a top 10 MW all time? Who would probably give him a licking outside the top 5?

How good was Lamotta? Good enough for top 10 AT? There are only 5 spots left.

[Willow The Wisp]

No. Top 16 though. Lol
My 2 cents (and worth every penny):
All-Time Middleweights Modern Era:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.Dick Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Mike McCallum
31.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't like using the "10" limitation unless you are looking for an argument.

But he is definitely an ATG MW. If you have to extend your list to 12 or 15 to get him on the list you probably should.

It took 63 rounds for one of them (SRR) to finally dominate the other, and that was a prime SRR.

P.S. Not "you" particularly, I meant that rhetorically.

[IronDanHamza]

Top of my head I'd say yes.

Last time I made a MW list I know he was in it somewhere in the Top 10.

[IronDanHamza]

No. Top 16 though. Lol
My 2 cents (and worth every penny):
All-Time Middleweights Modern Era:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.Dick Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Mike McCallum
31.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan

Dick Tiger #28?

Surely not.

[Willow The Wisp]

Dick Tiger #28?

Surely not.

The 19 losses, many in his prime, tempers his ranking against his peers when finding just the right spot in the force rank in arguably the deepest division.

[IronDanHamza]

The 19 losses, many in his prime, tempers his ranking against his peers when finding just the right spot in the force rank in arguably the deepest division.

Righttttttt but you have Tony Zale 8 places higher? Amongst many others with similar amount of loss's.

Quite a lot of Tiger's loss's weren't when he was in his prime either.

You can't honestly believe that Tony Zale is a greater Middleweight than Dick Tiger?

[Willie Pep 229]

Righttttttt but you have Tony Zale 8 places higher? Amongst many others with similar amount of loss's.

Quite a lot of Tiger's loss's weren't when he was in his prime either.

You can't honestly believe that Tony Zale is a greater Middleweight than Dick Tiger?

And you can't honestly say he isn't. It is all so subjective that it means nothing.

[IronDanHamza]

And you can't honestly say he isn't. It is all so subjective that it means nothing.

Ehh, you kind of can.

Yes it's subjective of course, within reason.

If someone was to say Elmer Ray is a greater and more accomplished fighter than Muhammad Ali for example then it's safe to say that's objectively false.

Tony Zale above Dick Tiger? Come on....

[Willow The Wisp]

Righttttttt but you have Tony Zale 8 places higher? Amongst many others with similar amount of loss's.

Quite a lot of Tiger's loss's weren't when he was in his prime either.

You can't honestly believe that Tony Zale is a greater Middleweight than Dick Tiger?

I think teasing out the career quality assesment score gap between Tony Zale and Dick Tiger, and the other 7 who are seated in between then on my list is done with a microscope.
Debate and defense of concept is a traditional message board activity, and far be it from little ol' me to claim that it shouldn't be. Furthermore, if you post a big rank list of anything, you should know your getting the stick.

However....
When terms like "Righttttttt" and "You can't honestly believe" sneak into the dialog; you face a decision point.

My decision is: A) I often enjoy your posting.
B) I enjoy mine too. C) I support your right to respectfully disagree.

A boxing writer over 50 years, I scarcely have enough energy left to debate my own wife.