If Wills Had Fought And Beaten Dempsey In1922?

[travestyny]

Its also a matter of public record that Johnson signed contracts to fight,McVey and Langford in Australia and Jeannette in the US,.
Johnson's last hurrah was his heroic stand against Willard,after that he was a back number, fighting for eating money against trial horses.wherever he could get a purse,in whichever country would entertain him.

Why a poster insists on bringing him into nearly every thread is a mystery to me ,or at least it would be if I was unaware of his hate agenda towards Johnson.


No matter, Johnson's name won't be brought into any new threads of mine, coz there ain't gonna be any!

It's a shame that you won't make more threads. Don't let this place get to you, man. I know it's annoying with all the trolls, but you do a good job slapping them around anyway. People can see through the BS.

[Dr. Z]

Its also a matter of public record that Johnson signed contracts to fight,McVey and Langford in Australia and Jeannette in the US,.
Johnson's last hurrah was his heroic stand against Willard,after that he was a back number, fighting for eating money against trial horses.wherever he could get a purse,in whichever country would entertain him. Though why a poster insists on bringing him into nearly every thread is a mystery to me?


No matter, Johnson's name won't be brought into any new threads of mine, coz there ain't gonna be any!

It is record that Johnson pulled out of signed contact to meet Langford in late 1908- 1909 and never fought prime version of Langford, Jeannette, if Mcvey from 1909 - 1915 and or ANY older version of them. All of them could have used the money. Fights were made offered in the UK and France. Johnson passed. Johnson did fight one African American in France, and that man was a journeyman! In 1913. The result of which was a dubious draw where Johnson was teetering on the verge of being knocked out at the end of 10 rounds! The promoters had some not so nice thing to say about Johnson. The money was there. Why don't you research this for yourself? I think I know why...

[Dr. Z]

Have you read Unforgivable Blackness? It was reported on there.

I'll try to see if there were any newspaper articles about it in a few, but I can probably find it in the book and share it more quickly.

Thanks. Yes, I have read it a few years back. The book is very well written. Thanks for looking. If you find the passage or any news articles on Wills vs. Johnson please post them here.

[Ivich]

It is record that Johnson pulled out of signed contact to meet Langford in late 1908- 1909 and never fought prime version of Langford, Jeannette, if Mcvey from 1909 - 1915 and or ANY older version of them. All of them could have used the money. Fights were made offered in the UK and France. Johnson passed. Johnson did fight one African American in France, and that man was a journeyman! In 1913. The result of which was a dubious draw where Johnson was teetering on the verge of being knocked out at the end of 10 rounds! The promoters had some not so nice thing to say about Johnson. The money was there. Why don't you research this for yourself? I think I know why...

I made this post 7 years ago refuting all your points but you still compulsively repeat them.

1. "In1912 Jack Johnson signed to defend against Jeannette in NY for the McMahon brothers.
   He signed to fight Langford and McVey in Australia for McIntosh,and offered to defend against Kaufman in NY.
   
   The NY Commission refused to allow him to fight in NY and threatened to ban any promoter who allowed him to box in their arenas.
   Johnson agreed terms with Hugh McIntosh to defend against Langford and McVey, but McIntosh withdrew the offer when Johnson was arrested on charges of abducting Lucille Cameron. The NY commission refused to allow him to defend against Kaufman or anyone else. Your hatred blinds you to the truth and I don't post this for your benefit because you'll post the same **** again in a few days, I post it for anyone who doesn't know the truth but would like to ."
   
   
   
   
   I don't know how many times over the years I have requested you produce '
   VERIFIED OFFERS FROM PRIMARY SOURCES OF $30,000,$50,000,AND $100,000 THAT JOHNSON REFUSED !
   IVE ASKED FOR NAMES OF PROMOTERS VENUES DATES AND PURSES FOR OVER A DECADE.
   TO DATE YOU HAVE RESPONDED WITH NOTHING!!!!!!
   I really cannot be arsed with you further
   There is something rather unhealthy about this phobic obsession of yours.

[travestyny]

Thanks. Yes, I have read it a few years back. The book is very well written. Thanks for looking. If you find the passage or any news articles on Wills vs. Johnson please post them here.

..........

[Willie Pep 229]

You two have been at this for seven fucking years?

And I thought I had unhealthy hobbies.

[Dr. Z]

..........

What was the date? Why didn't this fight happen? Thanks.

[Dr. Z]

I made this post 7 years ago refuting all your points but you still compulsively repeat them.

1. "In1912 Jack Johnson signed to defend against Jeannette in NY for the McMahon brothers.
   He signed to fight Langford and McVey in Australia for McIntosh,and offered to defend against Kaufman in NY.
   
   The NY Commission refused to allow him to fight in NY and threatened to ban any promoter who allowed him to box in their arenas.
   Johnson agreed terms with Hugh McIntosh to defend against Langford and McVey, but McIntosh withdrew the offer when Johnson was arrested on charges of abducting Lucille Cameron. The NY commission refused to allow him to defend against Kaufman or anyone else. Your hatred blinds you to the truth and I don't post this for your benefit because you'll post the same **** again in a few days, I post it for anyone who doesn't know the truth but would like to ."
   
   
   
   
   I don't know how many times over the years I have requested you produce '
   VERIFIED OFFERS FROM PRIMARY SOURCES OF $30,000,$50,000,AND $100,000 THAT JOHNSON REFUSED !
   IVE ASKED FOR NAMES OF PROMOTERS VENUES DATES AND PURSES FOR OVER A DECADE.
   TO DATE YOU HAVE RESPONDED WITH NOTHING!!!!!!
   I really cannot be arsed with you further
   There is something rather unhealthy about this phobic obsession of yours.

Why didn't they move the fight to another city in the USA! Or the UK or France? You won't answer this question! I think I know why. . IMO, Johnson signed when he knew fight would not happen there. . He did not sign articles before then. Months before when the fight was announced by McIntosh. He has the money to stage this fight elsewhere, if needed. Johnson used the NY commission same as Dempsey to avoid this match with Wills.

And a bigot likes you likes to repeat this.

END.

[QueensburyRules]

Kearns used the purported $1,000,000 offer from Mexico City as a stall while he beat the bushes out west looking for a fight away from Rickard.

He (Kearns) claimed he was talking to Mexico but never followed it up with either action or even rhetoric. Just fluff.

Johnson had done nothing of worth between 1915-1922 so Dempsey didn't need the color line to blow off Johndon. No one wanted the fight except Johnson.

He (Johnson) had become a non-entity and no one was taking him seriously.

As I said in an earlier post Rickard showed the Johnson-Jeffries fight in 1921 in Chicago as a lead-in to the Dempsey-Carpentier film.

The audience ignored the fight and talked over it.

In keeping with the OP - one has to wonder if Wills would have taken a Johnson fight.

Personally I doubt he would bother. Jeannette in New York or Langford anywhere, woukd likely have sold better than a Wills-Johndon fight in '22 or '23.

Johnson was never actually popular until he became the Negro threat that had to be unseated from the championship.

He filled seats with fans who wanted to see him humbled. By 1922 he had been humbled and White fans had lost interest in him.

A Wills-Johnson fight, an all Negro go, wasn't going to sell because few would have cared since Johnson was no longer a threat, in the ring or out of the ring; never popular, just hated and by '22, forgotten.

Right or wrong by 1922 he (Johnson) was reduced to a convicted felon and a has-been fighter.

- - Fair to say Harry never as popular as Sam and Joe and being the youngest, the last fighter JJ would consider.

Post Willard, Harry vs Jack as hot as any fight ever, but racial politics killed it to the everlasting moaning of Dempsey critics.

[Willie Pep 229]

What was the date? Why didn't this fight happen? Thanks.

Likely 1921.

On August 8th 1921 Jack Johndon tried to test the political waters to see if he could get a fight in New Jersey.

He was scheduled for a three round exhibition with one Willie Jackson, in Atlantic City. Robert Dougherty of the NJ State Commission rejected the fight at the last minute. (AUGUST 9TH NYT)

Just in case New Jersey had any ideas about letting the fight happen, the City of Philadelphia's Director of Public Safety [need name] decided to place a little pressure on New Jersey by announcing that there would be no license available for a Johnson-Wills fight in the City of 'Brotherly Love.' (AUGUST 7TH NYT) **

The next day August 8th Dougherty (NJ) pulled the plug on the exhibition.

It looks as though this was just another one of those 'announced fights' just to see if they could garner support and find a venue.

Notice that the news blurp, announcing the possible fight, July 6th, came out of Leavenworth Kansas. (federal prison maybe)

My conjecture, Johnson was probably just making noise while still incarcerated and Wills probably had no knowledge of what Johnson was up to.

I doubt, but would like to know, if papers were signed or if a promoter stepped up. But my guess is that, that news blurp is just JJ making noise pending his release.

It is not suprising JJ would announced that he wants an immediate championship fight, even if it was only for the Negro Championship. As I was saying earlier, I can't see him taking anything less than a championship fight.

Does anyone know JJ's release date from prison?

Seems odd that he would be making this play in a Kansas newspaper if he was out of prison. But he is in NJ, ready to fight, by early August. So the dates must be close.

Either way he found out pretty quickly he was still going to be blocked out of the big venues, e.g. NY, PA, NJ.

** If you are wondering why I suggest that Philadelphia (PA) could possibly influence actions in New Jersey you need to understand that south Jersey was an economic suburb of Phily, while northern New Jersey an economic suburb of New York.

If you ever look at a map of colonial America you will see it labeled West and East New Jersey, that's because North Jersey is west of New York and South Jersey is east of Philadelphia. The influence was so strong that the regions' early names were based on their relationship to the two major cities. They use to call it 'the wilds of New Jersey.' Lol