If Dempsey Had Defended Against Wills,Godfrey & Norfolk?

[travestyny]

The referee called the punch fair.Any reason why Dempsey should not hit Sharkey while he was talking to the referee?
Ever heard of;
"Protect yourself at all times?"

ps Sharkey was involved in 2 fights which featured low blows, he was the guilty party. and he lost his title because of one of those blows. Film does not lie ,but you do!

The ref called the punch low. I could probably find the quotation that makes it clear if you need me to prove it.

[Willie Pep 229]

That's not true. The Montreal offer that Dempsey declined was in 1922. Wills' people were for it.

Dempsey did not want this fight. Neither did Kearns. Rickard at one point early on seemed like he was down for it, but Dempsey wasn't with it.

First: it was Kearns smoke Second: New York at first showed a willingness to back the fight then retracted it's offer. Third: As soon as Kearns heard Rickard wanted in, he let the fight die. Fourth: Dempsey made a statement he wasn't taking the fight because he needed more time. Dempsey oddly makes this pointless statement a few days after Kearns alrrady said the fight was off.

It seems Kearns wasn't even keeping Dempsey in the loop either.

Kearns was working his own agenda, a fight free of Tex Rickard.

That is the boiler plate of everything that happens between fall 1921 - through July 1923.

If you view it through this prism a whole bunch of things suddenly make sense.

If you want to believe Dempsey was scared then you will believe it. Everybody's got a prism

[travestyny]

To me, any man with eyes can see that Dempsey hit him slightly below the belt line, nothing flagrant or purposeful at all so, young fella, I really don't know what the Mother Teresa you are talking about. When you get hit low, the simplest of principles is that your freaking trunks move. Sharkey's didn't. The two previous punches were not low either. Watch the evidence of the clip and maybe lay aside for now the general remark of Dempsey's, made who knows when, as if it matters, unless he was specifically talking about the Sharkey incident. The action was a sequence. Dempsey was in the middle of action, and the referee was only on his way at that point. Sharkey didn't protect himself at all times. Look where his arms were. No one's fault but his own. Dempsey not at fault. Furthermore, it was a light punch, an arm punch Dempsey did not dig in at all. Guess what, people get hit low all the time in boxing, if he even did. I believe Sharkey was trying to Hopkins his way into the title fight with Tunney. He was wearing down from Dempsey's constant body attack, so of course this is what he complained about, figuring a warning might slow down the body shots..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGMwMqRBDss

That's a whole lot of excuses to allow a boxer to get away with punching another in the balls

I mean I agree the name of the game is "protect yourself at all times," but it's kinda hard to do if you get hit in the balls. lol. How hard he was hit and how exactly it affected him, I don't think any of us can say.

[travestyny]

I agree about Muldoon with one exception. The ticket price limitation was a Tammany Hall (********ic) regulation, I believe. They controlled the City Counicl (we know it was Jimmy Walker who created the NYSAC in 1920.)

Tammany's controll of New York was always a political gain for the lower class who often found themseleves priced out of big events.

So I suspect that Muldoon used the regulation, but doubt he had the authority to create it. I doubt that was in his power. But I'm also sure he used it to his racist advantage to fend off promoters.

But we also have to recognize it was a negotiation that could be dealt with and was the very next year when Dempsey met Firpo in the Polo Grounds, 1923. So it obviously was not a deal breaker in 1922, it could have been worked around, as it was in 1923 (where only a seating section was subject to the price restrictuon.)

Tammany could do whatever it wanted with the City and often did.

In regards to the three venue problem, yes all three said no at first, but New Jersey (for political reasons) saw the governor publicly overrule his own (New Jersey) Athletic Commission and announce that New Jersey was avaiable for mixed fights. Nothing came of it.

Boston stayed closed.

Also you have to factor in the arrival of James Farley. Farley was a Tammany Hall vote getter who would rise to becoming FDR's cheif New York political adviser. (The 1932 ********ic Nominating Convention was in MSG, 1932)

Farley is credited as a major player in bringing the nomination to FDR.

He rose through the ranks of Tammany in 1920s by bringing in Negro votes, helping to create Tammany's first political inroads into Uptown via Harlem.

Jimmy Walker rewarded Farley with a seat on the NYSAC. It was Farley who changed the course of the NYSAC's attiute towards black fighters.

Farley reduced Muldoon to a figure head and then they ousted him.

With Farley's NYSAC the fight was doable in New York but Dempsey had by then slipped away.

Also I don't believe Doc Kearns would have taken the fight even if the Polo Grounds issue had been resolved. It you look close, Kearns never actually makes a legal commitment to any fight. Just public statements of intent.

The closest I have been able to find (maybe you can show me different) is Kearns signing papers promising to negotiate in good faith and then he just watched it fall apart while he continued to work on his (Rickard free) western adventure.

What do you think of the Montreal offer and Dempsey claiming he needed more time to train?

[Willie Pep 229]

To me, any man with eyes can see that Dempsey hit him slightly below the belt line, nothing flagrant or purposeful at all so, young fella, I really don't know what the Mother Teresa you are talking about. When you get hit low, the simplest of principles is that your freaking trunks move. Sharkey's didn't. The two previous punches were not low either. Watch the evidence of the clip and maybe lay aside for now the general remark of Dempsey's, made who knows when, as if it matters, unless he was specifically talking about the Sharkey incident. The action was a sequence. Dempsey was in the middle of action, and the referee was only on his way at that point. Sharkey didn't protect himself at all times. Look where his arms were. No one's fault but his own. Dempsey not at fault. Furthermore, it was a light punch, an arm punch Dempsey did not dig in at all. Guess what, people get hit low all the time in boxing, if he even did. I believe Sharkey was trying to Hopkins his way into the title fight with Tunney. He was wearing down from Dempsey's constant body attack, so of course this is what he complained about, figuring a warning might slow down the body shots..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGMwMqRBDss

Dempsey never denied he hit him low. Dempsey gave a beautiful non denial denial. "What did they want me to do, send him a telegram."

Dempsey's remark about low blows was not a singular throwaway remark.

Once Dempsey was refereeing fight. A fighter threw a couple of punches that wandered low. The other fighter's guys howled in complaint and jumped all over Dempsey for his non calls.

Dempsey told the second, "Tell your guy to throw a couple back, he'll stop."

That is a story Dempsey liked to tell about himself.

Stop trying to make Dempsey something he wasn't. He was a brawler who learned to fight in bars for hat money.

All you can say, he never complained about a fighter doing it to him. Even the Lester fight, Dempsey won't go as far as to say Lester fouled him, instead he refers to it as him 'being shown things he never saw before.' I'm confident Dempsey was suggesting both legal and illegal things took place when he took that beating. But he took it and moved on.

[Willie Pep 229]

Have you ever been hit in the balls? Serious question.

Yea, and went right to my knees and ****** wind. Everyone does. Let a punt slip through my hands.

Fitzsimmons punched Sharky in the balls and he passed out cold.

Dempsey didn't hit Sharkey in the 'balls' he poped him below the belt, likely on Sharkey's left side.

I Said, Dempsey had mastered the low blow. No kidney belts. He sought to gain an advantage but not let his opponent draw a DQ. No 'balls' that's hyperbole.

Stop saying he hit him in the 'balls' he didn't.

You get hit in the 'balls' you drop straight down no exception to the rule, except if you're a bitch

Sharkey stayed upright, he wasn't hit in the balls.

[Willie Pep 229]

What do you think of the Montreal offer and Dempsey claiming he needed more time to train?

I addressed this elsewhere. I'm not sure now if it was to you. Sorry. But did just mention it.

In short it really didn't matter the fight was already off and Kearns was on his way to San Francisco for some other reason I never could find logic in.

It was also around that time Kearns was talking Johnson, Mexico City, and a one million dollar guarantee. More smoke.

[travestyny]

Yea, and went right to my knees and ****** wind. Everyone does. Let a punt slip through my hands.

Fitzsimmons punched Sharky in the balls and he passed out cold.

Dempsey didn't hit Sharkey in the 'balls' he poped him below the belt, likely on Sharkey's left side.

I Said, Dempsey had mastered the low blow. No kidney belts. He sought to gain an advantage but not let his opponent draw a DQ. No 'balls' that's hyperbole.

Stop saying he hit him in the 'balls' he didn't.

You get hit in the 'balls' you drop straight down no exception to the rule, except if you're a bitch

Sharkey stayed upright, he wasn't hit in the balls.

This is simply not true. You can find tons of discussions about why there is a delayed reaction to being hit in the balls online.

ELI5: Why doesn't getting hit in the balls hurt instantaneously?

It's the little pause between 'hey, that didn't hurt' and lying on the ground in an fetal position that I'm wondering about.

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlike...he_balls_hurt/

[travestyny]

I addressed this elsewhere. I'm not sure now if it was to you. Sorry. But did just mention it.

In short it really didn't matter the fight was already off and Kearns was on his way to San Francisco for some other reason I never could find logic in.

It was also around that time Kearns was talking Johnson, Mexico City, and a one million dollar guarantee. More smoke.

But it contradicts what you were saying about Wills and co only wanting the fight in New York.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is simply not true. You can find tons of discussions about why there is a delayed reaction to being hit in the balls online.

I'm not going into this debate. I concede, your balls are tougher than mine. I go straight down or at least bend over and moan on the light taps.

I don't stay up and argue with anyone.

The balls argument is yours to win. I'm just a pussy I guess.