Ward compared to Floyd

[billeau2]

I think that Ward has one of the best averages regarding quality opponents that he beat. Not great fighters, but at his super middle-Middle he fought some real "workman" like fighters, with very few slouches.

hard to put him on an ATG list just yet... but if we have this conversation 10 years from now... Its very possible imo he gets there.

I think on tape, Floyd at 130-135 had outstanding skills, more than Ward imo. I do think if we look at both men at their best weight, Ward might have fought better competition through and through and was more dominant against his opposition. I don't attribute these qualities necessarily to Ward being better, but its worth looking at the opposition each man faced carefully... I am undecided on this point frankly.

Neither guy was able to fight an ATG rival, during mutual primes... a real foible. Kovalev looked at one point like he may fufill that for Ward, but nahh lol. Regarding the Floyd Pac fight, it was in neither guys prime, at neither guys prime weight, and frankly, the fight did not show me anything as both men played it safe.

[Anthony342]

I think that Ward has one of the best averages regarding quality opponents that he beat. Not great fighters, but at his super middle-Middle he fought some real "workman" like fighters, with very few slouches.

hard to put him on an ATG list just yet... but if we have this conversation 10 years from now... Its very possible imo he gets there.

I think on tape, Floyd at 130-135 had outstanding skills, more than Ward imo. I do think if we look at both men at their best weight, Ward might have fought better competition through and through and was more dominant against his opposition. I don't attribute these qualities necessarily to Ward being better, but its worth looking at the opposition each man faced carefully... I am undecided on this point frankly.

Neither guy was able to fight an ATG rival, during mutual primes... a real foible. Kovalev looked at one point like he may fufill that for Ward, but nahh lol. Regarding the Floyd Pac fight, it was in neither guys prime, at neither guys prime weight, and frankly, the fight did not show me anything as both men played it safe.

That's the thing really, isn't it? With Ward, I'm not hearing about any guys he should've fought but didn't. Or anyone he fought but too late in their careers. With Floyd, there seems to be both, although apparently not entirely his fault from what I've read and been told. But that still kind of gives Ward the edge to me. Fighting all the best at their best. Only drawback might be his shortened career.

[billeau2]

That's the thing really, isn't it? With Ward, I'm not hearing about any guys he should've fought but didn't. Or anyone he fought but too late in their careers. With Floyd, there seems to be both, although apparently not entirely his fault from what I've read and been told. But that still kind of gives Ward the edge to me. Fighting all the best at their best. Only drawback might be his shortened career.

I agree. If you really look at their resumes at their weight, while Floyd obviously had some dynamic attributes on a technical level, Ward fought better quality competition. I think... Maybe someone can change my mind but it is not only that Ward fought better comp at his weight, but he more thoroughly dominated at his weight.

[billeau2]

That first Kovalev fight will never sit right with me. I thought Ward lost that fight.

It is a valid point. For the sake of argument lets say Ward got a gift in that fight. I think most great fighters got at least one, perhaps a few such gifts. Floyd certainly got at least one, probably more.

[billeau2]

- - Should've been DQed in the 2nd fight too. Wart at heart an insecure sissy needing heavy ref assistance, not a real fighter. He volunteered to fight l'l floydy at 162 lbs, but wouldn't fight Golovkin at 164, whereas Golovkin offered l'l floydy a crack at his middle title at 155lbs, or to come down to 154 for Floyd belts, but no go for l'l floydy for either.

Lol your nuts Queenie. NOBODY except you would accuse Ward of ducking a fighter. And Ward never intimated he wanted to fight Floyd. Kovlev was beaten to a pulp in that second fight... You could take a point off, even two and it would not have made a difference. Kovalev was exhausted and the blow was borderline low. Your a Ward hater lol.

[IronDanHamza]

I think that Ward has one of the best averages regarding quality opponents that he beat. Not great fighters, but at his super middle-Middle he fought some real "workman" like fighters, with very few slouches.

hard to put him on an ATG list just yet... but if we have this conversation 10 years from now... Its very possible imo he gets there.

I think on tape, Floyd at 130-135 had outstanding skills, more than Ward imo. I do think if we look at both men at their best weight, Ward might have fought better competition through and through and was more dominant against his opposition. I don't attribute these qualities necessarily to Ward being better, but its worth looking at the opposition each man faced carefully... I am undecided on this point frankly.

Neither guy was able to fight an ATG rival, during mutual primes... a real foible. Kovalev looked at one point like he may fufill that for Ward, but nahh lol. Regarding the Floyd Pac fight, it was in neither guys prime, at neither guys prime weight, and frankly, the fight did not show me anything as both men played it safe.

Not even close.

Ward struggled with Sakio Bika, got dropped by Darnelle Boone.

Floyd barely lost a round at 130 against at worst the same level opposition.

Ward was no where near as dominant as Floyd, didn’t fight anywhere near as good opposition.

Theres no comparison really in their careers. Ward was a quality fighter and sure fire first ballot HOFer but he’s not even remotely close to Floyd’s level.

[IronDanHamza]

That's the thing really, isn't it? With Ward, I'm not hearing about any guys he should've fought but didn't. Or anyone he fought but too late in their careers. With Floyd, there seems to be both, although apparently not entirely his fault from what I've read and been told. But that still kind of gives Ward the edge to me. Fighting all the best at their best. Only drawback might be his shortened career.

If you actually genuinely think that Ward’s level of opposition and career was even in the same stratosphere as Floyd’s then you’re just on another planet.

[billeau2]

Not even close.

Ward struggled with Sakio Bika, got dropped by Darnelle Boone.

Floyd barely lost a round at 130 against at worst the same level opposition.

Ward was no where near as dominant as Floyd, didn’t fight anywhere near as good opposition.

Theres no comparison really in their careers. Ward was a quality fighter and sure fire first ballot HOFer but he’s not even remotely close to Floyd’s level.

Ward and Floyd both had moments, and at least one "gift"... If you look at who Ward dominated in the tourney, that alone stands as remarkable...he was an underdog in that tourney. I don't know how you are determining dominant, or level of opposition. Who has Floyd been dominant against that is a step up from fighters like Froch, Kessler, even Abrahamson?

[IronDanHamza]

Ward and Floyd both had moments, and at least one "gift"... If you look at who Ward dominated in the tourney, that alone stands as remarkable...he was an underdog in that tourney. I don't know how you are determining dominant, or level of opposition. Who has Floyd been dominant against that is a step up from fighters like Froch, Kessler, even Abrahamson?

He was underdog going in to the tournament, but fight by fight the only fight in his career he was underdog for was Kessler.

Floyd was an underdog against Diego Corrales so it’s the same difference and Corrales was held in way higher regard than anyone Ward fought except maybe Carl Froch was also on the P4P list like Corrales at the time (going from memory)

Floyd’s opposition level is on a different stratosphere. Floyd beat 7 fighters on the P4P list, Ward just 1. Floyd beat ten fighters ranked #1 in the division, Ward fought 1 in Kovalev.

It’s not even remotely close.

Ward was dropped heavily by a journeyman, Floyd never dropped.

Floyd won 13 world titles in 5 weight classes, Ward won less than 5 across 2.

[Anthony342]

Ward and Floyd both had moments, and at least one "gift"... If you look at who Ward dominated in the tourney, that alone stands as remarkable...he was an underdog in that tourney. I don't know how you are determining dominant, or level of opposition. Who has Floyd been dominant against that is a step up from fighters like Froch, Kessler, even Abrahamson?

Exactly. And he probably graduated high school. Let him argue with you instead of singling me out. And they were prime when he fought them right?