Joe Frazier vs Jack Johnson

[Ingo Bingo]

- - Early KO for Joe who was a notorious slow starter, but not vs JJohnson.

Before he won the Burns belt, Johnson had several KO losses, and several more after Willard, and none of them against Big George.

To lose fights isn´t always a bad thing. It could be a learning experience. In those days it was. They weren´t as protected as they are today. I think Johnson
vs Foreman would be an easier fight for Johnson than the fight against Frazier. Foreman had few tools in the box. He was very predictable.

[Dr. Z]

Jack Johnson´s five dimensions are Tactical, Strategic, Powerful, Technical, and Defensive master. The more tools you have in your box the greater your success.

Tactically Johnson likes to clinch super middle weights, old men, or guys who just stood there and did not throw many punches except for when his opponent hand good footwork like Jack O'brien did. Frazier had quick feet

Strategically I don't see any good ring generalship. What do you mean by that?

Powerful? Only vs. the small or old and slow. He was not more powerful than Jim Battling Johnson or Jess Willard! Because he wasn't. He wasn't a puncher.

Technically he did many things wrong like hold his guard low. He was not mover with feet in general. He did not often deploy a 1 ,2 nor did he have a good hook. He was skilled fouler though, I guess there is an art to hitting and holding.

Defensive master? Vs who? You know he was nailed quite a bit. KO'd by Choynski and Klon***e, and out boxed by Giriffin and Hart. Also out jabbed by O'Brien! Of course he was KO's by Willlard but he was older not that match.

Are you aware of all of the above facts? Probably not, but you can reply try to educate me. For all I know you are an expert.

[them_apples]

A primitive boxer from the late 1800's early 1900's versus a modern skilled boxer? Lol Frazier would destroy Johnson.

except in Johnsons day they had open mitts and 4 oz gloves. You could grapple. hold and hit, punch biceps and triceps etc..Not saying Frazier doesn't get him - just putting things into perspective, I wouldn't completely write Johnson off - but I do think Joe would probably get him.

[shawnkemp804]

except in Johnsons day they had open mitts and 4 oz gloves. You could grapple. hold and hit, punch biceps and triceps etc..Not saying Frazier doesn't get him - just putting things into perspective, I wouldn't completely write Johnson off - but I do think Joe would probably get him.

Right and back in Johnson's day the skill level was primitive and most heavyweights were 170 pounds. Also you do realize everything you said that was legal back in Johnson's day has nothing to do with skill right? Also if Johnson would be allowed to do that against Frazier then Frazier would be allowed to do it against Johnson.

[them_apples]

Right and back in Johnson's day the skill level was primitive and most heavyweights were 170 pounds. Also you do realize everything you said that was legal back in Johnson's day has nothing to do with skill right? Also if Johnson would be allowed to do that against Frazier then Frazier would be allowed to do it against Johnson.

How is this relevant? He fought under different rules and you are judging his capability off of that. Doesn’t make any sense. And yeah Frazier would be allowed to do that, except he wouldn’t know how to or at least wouldn’t because he never did. Thats like saying lets teach someone these skills before we match them up.

and you do realize that skills are essentially any maneuver that allows you to win legally. What is your definition of skill?

we drop them in the ring as is, Johnson has to be allowed to grapple to fight like he did. If he’s not allowed to then sure he probably gets knocked out

[QueensburyRules]

To lose fights isn´t always a bad thing. It could be a learning experience. In those days it was. They weren´t as protected as they are today. I think Johnson
vs Foreman would be an easier fight for Johnson than the fight against Frazier. Foreman had few tools in the box. He was very predictable.

- - Big George a lot smarter than JJohnson with more obvious physical gifts.

Without Jeffries coming out of 6 yr retirement losing 100lbs on diet that would emaciate a humming bird, nobody would remember Johnson for being any more than lesser to Wills, Langford, and Jeannette, his contemporaries. Instead he gets to be the first black heavy champ with a cast of forgettable defenses.

[Ingo Bingo]

Big George wasn´t smart at all. Ali and Young fights proves it. He was a one-dimensional fighter relying only on his power. That was his downfall.

[mrbig1]

this would be one of the few times Johnson doesn't defend his title vs a fat short MW. Johnson would have his way early until those Frazier body and head shots would take effect. another Frazier vs Mathis.

[them_apples]

this would be one of the few times Johnson doesn't defend his title vs a fat short MW. Johnson would have his way early until those Frazier body and head shots would take effect. another Frazier vs Mathis.

he fought big guys too. It didn’t make a difference, back then people all fought eachother and some were hard as nails. Some times the bigger guy is just an easy target.

[billeau2]

Big George wasn´t smart at all. Ali and Young fights proves it. He was a one-dimensional fighter relying only on his power. That was his downfall.

Did you watch those fights? Especially the Young fight?