Joe Frazier vs Jack Johnson

[Dr. Z]

The match up on paper is close meaning they are about the same height, weight, and reach, I say Frazier hits way harder, but Johnson is better at clinching. With an early 1900's style rule set and 15 rounds I see Frazier as the clear winner.

As soon as Frazier get out of a clinch Johnson is meat. Because Frazier is such a slow stater I picture him winning in five rounds. How do you see the match going?

[Willie Pep 229]

I think you are on the cusp where boxing changed its basic style (HW wise). Willard the old guard and Dempsey the beginning of the new.

Frazier-Johnson, would find both men, confronting a style of fighting they are unfamiliar with and the fight wouldn't be very entertainig.

Both fighters would continually hesitate never finding a proper rhythm in which to fight.

If I was JJ I would not take the fight until I had multiple opportunities to adjust to the new style at a lower level.

If I was Frazier's manager I'd be worried that my guy was going to be forced into a back-foot syle fight, where JJ would control the pace and engagements, neutralizing my guy's attack, and possibly (easily) stealing a UD from my guy.

I think maybe, just a maybe . . . we should view HW fantasy fights as having three viable eras for match-ups.

Sullivan --> Willard

Dempsey --> Tyson?

Holyfield --> Fury

Crossing over those lines tends to result in strange match-ups, whether it be styles or later on, size, that make the match-ups seem unrealistic.

[GhostofDempsey]

If they each fought in their respective styles during their prime, Frazier wins it easily. Johnson wouldn’t have a size advantage as he did with his best wins over Burns, Ketchel, Jeannette, Langford, Kaufman, Fitz, etc. he also wouldn’t be able to get away with his holding and clinching tactics he used to wrestle and wear down smaller opponents.

[QueensburyRules]

- - JJohnson gonna wear himself out trying to hang on to Joe who has the guaranteed Punctuation to end this fight post haste.

[billeau2]

Frazier is one very tough cookie. I mean lets take the physical abilities of Foster and for the sake of argument give them a similar ranking to Johnson. Foster was a harder puncher and Johnson had more technical chops. The pressure of Frazier is going to force the issue in either case and make mistakes happen. With Johnson something has to give... either he is able to control the distance, like what was done back when in boxing, or not. Johnson was very strong, but again, so was Foster.

[Slugfester]

Frazier is one very tough cookie. I mean lets take the physical abilities of Foster and for the sake of argument give them a similar ranking to Johnson. Foster was a harder puncher and Johnson had more technical chops. The pressure of Frazier is going to force the issue in either case and make mistakes happen. With Johnson something has to give... either he is able to control the distance, like what was done back when in boxing, or not. Johnson was very strong, but again, so was Foster.

Foster who?Are you talking about Bob?

[mrbig1]

If they each fought in their respective styles during their prime, Frazier wins it easily. Johnson wouldn’t have a size advantage as he did with his best wins over Burns, Ketchel, Jeannette, Langford, Kaufman, Fitz, etc. he also wouldn’t be able to get away with his holding and clinching tactics he used to wrestle and wear down smaller opponents.

Could not have said it better.

[billeau2]

Foster who?Are you talking about Bob?

Yes. Also known as the Sheriff. Foster was a murderous puncher, arguably one of the best light heavies on a 15 person list, or so. I doubt anyone thought frazier would be able to really pressure Foster to such an extent before that fight. Let me clear up my garbled thoughts from last post regarding Johnson:Foster: Both men were considered strong. Foster was wiry, Johnson was catlike, solid with no wasted weight. I think we could compare both men with respect to their strength when we consider Joe's pressure tactics.

Johnson's technical abilities would only hold if he could control distance. His ability to control the fight inside, etc, would be in jeopardy. I would not compare Johnson to Ali because Ali's abilities were hard to compare with. Ali did things wrong... but they usually worked for him...of course the monster hook he caught from Joe was because he got sloppy moving straight back...But he usually made it work. Johnson was more like Roy jones, who had technical abilities that supplemented his pure athletic abilities. Just don't think it holds against Frazier with Johnson.

[Slugfester]

Foster's punch was murderous to light heavyweights, but I don't think it was with true heavies, far as I know.

[Willie Pep 229]

Foster's punch was murderous to light heavyweights, but I don't think it was with true heavies, far as I know.

When he landed a hard right hand on Ali, Ali mocked him with rubbery legs.

His best right hand didn't hurt the best HW chin.

I have to agree, he didn't bring his power up from LHW.

Also Foster always looked like a LHW, while the others (Moorer, Holyfield, Spinks) all grew in size, some legally some from PEDs, but Foster always looked like a LHW.