Joe Jennette vs. Jack Johnson 1913

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson signed to defend against both McVey and Langford in Australia,the promoter pulled the plug on the fights when public opinion turned against Johnson.
Now produce verified offers of $30,000 for Johnson to fight any of the black trio that he turned down?

Nevada.Chicago? Which promoter stated he was happy tp put on a heavyweight title fight between two black men?
Not Cofforth.Rickard,or Curley.they are on record as saying two blacks will not draw flies.
NY was only viable because Jeannette was a local boy and a favourite. The contract Johnson reneged on with Langford was for £6000 to be shared between the fighters,with both men to pay their own expenses for training and travelling to the UK.
As champion why would Johnson sail to the UK to fight a dangerous opponent like Langford for a pittance, when he could defend against Flynn in the US for $31,500?

Johnson demanded a forfeit be deposited in an American bank which is partly why the fights were cancelled in Australia. He kept moving the goal posts and he wasn't trustworthy enough for McIntosh to deposit thousands of dollars in an American bank at such a huge risk.

[travestyny]

Johnson demanded a forfeit be deposited in an American bank which is partly why the fights were cancelled in Australia. He kept moving the goal posts and he wasn't trustworthy enough for McIntosh to deposit thousands of dollars in an American bank at such a huge risk.

Not true. They used the same guy who had been used previously to take the forfeits. I believe it was Al Tierney out of Chicago (Johnson's advisor). Same guy that got the forfeits for the Joe Jeannette fight that didn't come off. As far as I know, this was the guy who handled the forfeits multiple times for Johnson (he did so in the Johnson/Flynn fight as well) and McIntosh agreed to post the forfeits to him when Johnson asked him to do so.

The fights were called off in October. Al Tierney was being mentioned as the custodian of the forfeits at least since August, which should have been no surprise since this is how it was often done for Johnson's fights. There was some rumblings about McIntosh wanting to post the forfeits with a newspaper in Sydney and Johnson wasn't going for that, rightfully so. Al Teirney had already proven to be trustworthy in the past.

[Willie Pep 229]

Not true. They used the same guy who had been used previously to take the forfeits. I believe it was Al Tierney out of Chicago (Johnson's advisor). Same guy that got the forfeits for the Joe Jeannette fight that didn't come off. As far as I know, this was the guy who handled the forfeits multiple times for Johnson (he did so in the Johnson/Flynn fight as well) and McIntosh agreed to post the forfeits to him when Johnson asked him to do so.

The fights were called off in October. Al Tierney was being mentioned as the custodian of the forfeits at least since August, which should have been no surprise since this is how it was often done for Johnson's fights. There was some rumblings about McIntosh wanting to post the forfeits with a newspaper in Sydney and Johnson wasn't going for that, rightfully so. Al Teirney had already proven to be trustworthy in the past.

This is a digression from the immediate argument and trivial.

I agree, I remember reading, recently in a post on here (BS), that Johnson would be surrendering his forfeit in Chicago.

I thought the same article stated that Jeannette had already deposited his forfeit in a New York bank and was waiting for JJ to act.

This is in reference to the failed MSG bout, not the down under deal.

[Dr. Z]

You must be a shameless ducker too because you still have refused to answer the question. I'll ask again...

Why would Johnson fight Langford for a shared amount of 6000 pounds when he could get 30,000 fighting others?



You asked me about other fights. I told you I don't have the information and that you should do the research yourself and bring it back here for us to discuss. I already gave you the information on Battling Jim. You refused to address it and never admit that you were wrong and I was right about the length of time that was to take place between the Jim Johnson and Frank Moran fight.

He did not get $30,000 or more for fighting O'Brien , Kaufman, Ross Jim Johnson or Moran. He fought them a fraction of that amount and it less than 6,000 pounds. READ

He only made over 30k vs. Jeffries. He did not make $30,000 For Flynn in 1912, though he made close enough in that fight which he won via DQ.

The Jim Johnson fight was only 10 rounds. At least it ended in 10 rounds. I never said otherwise here.

Way back when a good historian said it was 20 rounds which I interpreted it elsewhere, but since it has been researched it was 10 rounds. I don't speak French and can't read their version of the fight . If they say it was 20 round fight then it is open.

By the way that is a very old comment. Who are you on another board?

[travestyny]

He did not get $30,000 or more for fighting O'Brien , Kaufman, Ross Jim Johnson or Moran. He fought them a fraction of that amount and it less than 6,000 pounds. READ

He only made over 30k vs. Jeffries. He did not make $30,000 For Flynn in 1912, though he made close enough in that fight which he won via DQ.

The Jim Johnson fight was only 10 rounds. At least it ended in 10 rounds. I never said otherwise here.

Way back when a good historian said it was 20 rounds which I interpreted it elsewhere, but since it has been researched it was 10 rounds. I don't speak French and can't read their version of the fight . If they say it was 20 round fight then it is open.

By the way that is a very old comment. Who are you on another board?

What you are missing is context. I've already addressed Jim Johnson and Frank Moran, but you've ignored it and (I think purposely) tried to mischaracterize what I said you refused to acknowledge. It had nothing to do with you making any claim about the number of rounds. I don't even know why you said that. Clearly I said the Jim Johnson and Frank Moran fight were to be no more than a month apart. I'm pretty certain the Moran fight was made first because that was to be the big $30,000 fight. The Jim Johnson fight seemed to be thrown together in haste to grab some quick cash and obviously the title wasn't expected to change hands or the big $30,000 fight with Moran would be off. It was 10 rounds with a guy he was expected to win easily against, an it backfired and he had to postpone his big money fight.

O'Brien was a light heavy and they were fighting for a whopping 6 rounds. How do you think that was going to make $30,000 or that means he should fight Sam Langford for a few thousand??? It was a money grab that no one expected him to lose the championship over.


The big fights either had men who actually had a chance to win in 10 rounds or were much longer fights for the opportunity for the championship to actually change hands.

Tony Ross - 6 rounds
Kaufman - 10 rounds
Jim Johnson - 10 rounds
Jack Murray - 10 rounds

No one expected anything for these and that's why the were money grab fights mostly put on about a month before the main money fights.

Ketchel 20 rounds
Jeffries 45 rounds
Flynn 45 rounds
Moran 20 rounds
Willard 45 rounds.


Those were the big money fights. Obviously Langford, McVey, and Jeannette would be big money fights just based on the fact that they have enough knockout power to win even within 10 rounds. And as even you have admit, Johnson agreed to fight them all at one point in his career.

[travestyny]

READ

Let me put this to you in a way you would understand.

Look what Jeffries is doing here:

He fought Griffin, a "darkie," but he wouldn't dare take on Sam McVey even for $20,000. Why? Wouldn't fight Jack Johnson then either. Why? Do you have an answer for this?

[Willie Pep 229]

Let me put this to you in a way you would understand.

Look what Jeffries is doing here:

He fought Griffin, a "darkie," but he wouldn't dare take on Sam McVey even for $20,000. Why? Wouldn't fight Jack Johnson then either. Why? Do you have an answer for this?

I do!

You know the answer, you sited in your previous posts? These were money grab fights. Jeffries always claimed he wouldn't cross the color line if the title was at stake.

A McVea fight would have been 20 rounds and everyone would have viewed it as a title fight.

I am not defending Jeffries behavior only stating that you know the Griffin fight and the McVea fight were very different fights.

In short he was willing to fight the "darkie" so long as the title wasn't on the line.

BTW What newspapers are they? Why do you always post without citations?

Do you have any info that shows that the Moran fight was postponed because of JJ's injury?

Boxrec calls the Johnson-Johnson fight a title fight. I am wondering if you are right and they are wrong.

Do you have any sources that promote the Johnson fight as a title fight?

The chosen venues suggest you might be correct -->

The Élysée Montmartre (Johndon fight) was a smaller venue seating around 1,300. Not somewhere you hold a title fight.

I can't find a capacity figure for the
Velodrome d'Hiver, (Moran fight) but it looks to be a larger venue. Originally built for bicycle racing and used for Olympic events.

So you seem correct when you say they were approaching the two fights with different anticipations.

But Boxrec ????

[Ivich]

Surely that wouldn't be difficult to grasp but that's not what he said.

So why don't you go back and read the first remark he made and see what he actually said before calling me ******.

I didn't call you ******.Nor do I think you are ,a little pedantic on occasion but none of us is perfect.

[Ivich]

SHUT UP! Johnson had platy of time to fight Jeanette and the purse offer him more than he made vs. Kafuman, Ross, Jim Johnson, Ross and O'brien and Moran. The same goes for Sam Langford. Why not fight Langford after Burns? The fight for Langford was offered in 1909. Johnson had the Flynn title match in 1912! A full three years difference.

The contact for the fights that Johnson signed ( proof please ) in Australia could have been moved to Europe, Johnson did not jump to sign it. He signed it hen he knew the offer was dead in Australia. Something about trouble with a woman. For a saint like Johnson?! You get the picture. It was the same in many parts of the world.

You contradict yourself yet again with the two black men won't draw files comment, obviously the offers from the promoters did not feel that way.

Name a promoter who offered Johnson $30,000 to defend against any of the black trio that Johnson refused to sign contracts with?

I must have asked you this question about 50 times now ,on Classic from which you are permanently banned for your phobic hatred of Johnson ,and the lies you have told promoting that hatred,and a half a dozen times on this forum. You won't answer because you can't.
The fight with Langford was offered in1908 before Johnson won the title,Once champion johns decided he wanted more than a share of the paltry£6000 The NSC offered.'s I've seen you say sites were available in several countries including Russia! lol

That was certainly a boxing hot spot back in the early1900's.A country with no professional boxing what so ever!

Being of low IQ ,you don't seem to realise boxers do not make matches, promoters do,and they do so with the expectation that they will make a profit.


Jim Coffroth . " Two blacks, fighting for the heavyweight title would not draw flies."

Tex Rickard,,"An all black heavyweight title fight isn't worth a bucket of warn spit."

Barney Curley. " Two black heavyweights boxing for the title wouldn't make two cents"

[Ivich]

You claimed no one could find a source for that quotation. We found several

Is that what makes you so upset? Don't worry. I think Johnson held back just a little. lol

"Jeffries was in real good shape for the Johnson fight,if he hadn't been he never could have taken all that punishment"
Sam Langford.