Joe Jennette vs. Jack Johnson 1913

[Dr. Z]

According to boxrec, he appears to have been free from July 1902 to August 1903. He fought Jack Munroe in 1904 who was 7-2 according to boxrec. Couldn't he have fought McVey or Johnson instead or any time in between? It was a year between his fight with Corbett and Munroe.

McVey was still active in 1903 and 1904.

There was obviously demand for the match as you can see from the article I posted above.



LMAO. You are delusional. That fight wasn't close at all.


I don't know how you switched the conversation from Sam McVey to Sam Langford. I only brought up Langford because you mentioned him picking Jeffries to win. What he also mentioned was that Jeffries was in great shape but Johnson treated him like a baby in the ring.

But I hope you get the overall point. Jeffries had some fights for some quick money grabs, as you admit, but some bigger fights for major money. No different from Johnson. You can't play it one way for your idol and differently for Johnson just because you hate him. Besides. Johnson did a lot more to make those fights than Jeffries did to fight McVey or Johnson, until the white supremacists guilt tripped him into it.

From 1902 -1903 ( when someone offered 15k ) Jeffries had big money fights with Fitzsimmons and Corbett for around 30K. These were former lineal champions and would yield far more than a 17-18 year old Sam Mcvey, as he wasn't early as popular as Corbett and Fitzsimmons were. Be reasonable, it was a cheap offer from and unknown fighter at the time who was but 5-0 at box rec at the end of 1902! In 1903-1904 Sam McVery lost three fights in a row and retried from to game until 1906. At that time Jeffries was retired. That is how it went down.

Now do you think Jeffries should have fought a 5-0 fighter who was 17-18 years old for far less that he made vs Corbett and Fitzsimmons now? I'd appreciate an answer and will you apply the same logic to Jack Johnson who had multiple offers for more ( which was the only time Sam Mcvey ) than he fought vs. known and ranked fighters form 1909-1914?

Also what full rounds have you seen in the 1910 fight? List them please. I don't think you have seen what I have and are running your mouth based on a few highlights which show the fight was slow and featured a lot of clinching. Ie. It was close. Jeffries was sightly the better IMO in the fight four rounds. Indeed the British press had him slightly in the lead. Jeffries definitely won round four and nine. As I said if was a close enough of a fight through round 9 and Jeffries was old and had not fought in 6 years!

Rounds 10-15 were all Johnson's as the old man was tired. At least he went out on he shield and didn't quit a confirmed two or 3 times as Johnson did. Just the facts and timelines.

[travestyny]

From 1902 -1903 ( when someone offered 15k ) Jeffries had big money fights with Fitzsimmons and Corbett for around 30K. These were former lineal champions and would yield far more than a 17-18 year old Sam Mcvey, as he wasn't early as popular as Corbett and Fitzsimmons were. Be reasonable, it was a cheap offer from and unknown fighter at the time who was but 5-0 at box rec at the end of 1902! In 1903-1904 Sam McVery lost three fights in a row and retried from to game until 1906. At that time Jeffries was retired. That is how it went down.

As far as I know, the offer was 20k for McVey. That doesn't sound like a cheap offer to me. Plus there was plenty of time for the fight to be made, as I've already outlined.

Now do you think Jeffries should have fought a 5-0 fighter who was 17-18 years old for far less that he made vs Corbett and Fitzsimmons now? I'd appreciate an answer and will you apply the same logic to Jack Johnson who had multiple offers for more ( which was the only time Sam Mcvey ) than he fought vs. known and ranked fighters form 1909-1914?

Yes. I feel he should have fought him in between Fitzsimmons and Corbett. He was idle for an entire year between then.

Also what full rounds have you seen in the 1910 fight? List them please. I don't think you have seen what I have and are running your mouth based on a few highlights which show the fight was slow and featured a lot of clinching. Ie. It was close. Jeffries was sightly the better IMO in the fight four rounds. Indeed the British press had him slightly in the lead. Jeffries definitely won round four and nine. As I said if was a close enough of a fight through round 9 and Jeffries was old and had not fought in 6 years!

Rounds 10-15 were all Johnson's as the old man was tired. At least he went out on he shield and didn't quit a confirmed two or 3 times as Johnson did. Just the facts and timelines.

You are delusional. The fight wasn't close at all. Jeffries took an absolute beating. If he got any rounds it was because Johnson was toying with him.

[travestyny]

Be reasonable, it was a cheap offer from and unknown fighter at the time who was but 5-0 at box rec at the end of 1902!

I just want to ask you a question and I hope I can get an honest answer from you. I'm just curious about your opinion.


I find this to be interesting. This is a report from the Jeffries / Corbett fight....

You mentioned McVey's offer was a cheap offer. I'm sure the money Jeffries got thrown at him for Corbett et al. was part of a negotiation. However, in the case of Johnson and McVey, Jeffries wouldn't even go to the table. He claims it's because they were Black, but he fought Peter Jackson and Hank Griffin, who were also Black.

In the below article you can see that Johnson's challenge was received well by the crowd at the Corbett fight. However, the crowd jeered at Munroe's challenge. Yet Jeffries fought Munroe and not Johnson. Again, he said specifically because of his race.

My question is....why would Jeffries have such a problem with Johnson's race, but didn't mind when it was Peter Jackson or Hank Griffin?

As far as I can see, the fighting crowd made their decision about whom they wanted next.

[Dr. Z]

As far as I know, the offer was 20k for McVey. That doesn't sound like a cheap offer to me. Plus there was plenty of time for the fight to be made, as I've already outlined.



Yes. I feel he should have fought him in between Fitzsimmons and Corbett. He was idle for an entire year between then.




You are delusional. The fight wasn't close at all. Jeffries took an absolute beating. If he got any rounds it was because Johnson was toying with him.

Why don't you examine the numerous offers that Johnson received to fight Langford and Jeannette which were more than most of his title fights form 1909 - 1914. Why is this so? How come he never fought them? You have not answered this question!

As I already told you Jeffries was busy with Fitzsimmons and Corbett in 1902-1903 for bigger money offers. You are a fool to think he'd fight a 17-18 year old teenage instead who was green and only 5-0.

I doubt you have seen the early rounds of the 1910 fight. You did not clarify that you did!

[travestyny]

Why don't you examine the numerous offers that Johnson received to fight Langford and Jeannette which were more than most of his title fights form 1909 - 1914. Why is this so? How come he never fought them? You have not answered this question!

I have answered this question. Johnson made numerous offers to Langford. I believe at least 3, and they all fell apart through no fault of Johnson. So no surprise he would accept $30,000 for others. And we already know why those offers were more forthcoming. There was more money in him fighting White fighters.

As for the offers, if you have them then post them up, because you've been called out over and over to do so but you won't for some reason.

As I already told you Jeffries was busy with Fitzsimmons and Corbett in 1902-1903 for bigger money offers. You are a fool to think he'd fight a 17-18 year old teenage instead who was green and only 5-0.

As I've already told you, a whole year went by between Fitzsimmons and Corbett. Are you denying this?

You also ignored that the fighting public wanted Jeffries vs. Johnson instead of Jeffries vs. Monroe. Why didn't you address that at all?

I doubt you have seen the early rounds of the 1910 fight. You did not clarify that you did!

I've seen everything there was to see on youtube regarding that fight and it was extremely lopsided. When Johnson wasn't toying with Jeffries, he was beating him around the ring.

[Dr. Z]

I have answered this question. Johnson made numerous offers to Langford. I believe at least 3, and they all fell apart through no fault of Johnson. So no surprise he would accept $30,000 for others. And we already know why those offers were more forthcoming. There was more money in him fighting White fighters.

As for the offers, if you have them then post them up, because you've been called out over and over to do so but you won't for some reason.



As I've already told you, a whole year went by between Fitzsimmons and Corbett. Are you denying this?

You also ignored that the fighting public wanted Jeffries vs. Johnson instead of Jeffries vs. Monroe. Why didn't you address that at all?




I've seen everything there was to see on youtube regarding that fight and it was extremely lopsided. When Johnson wasn't toying with Jeffries, he was beating him around the ring.

B()ll$#it! Johnson ignored many offers and only signed the contact when he knew the fight could not be made in a certain area. He DID not which the venue if the fight! Why?

Yes the was a year between Corbett and Fitzsimmons. One year is not much time for a champion to duck anyone an I explained then that teenage 17-18 old McVey was a nobody. Had a Remo 1910 like purse for Jeffries been there in for Jeffries in 1905 we see him fight and beat the over rated Johnson just like the ring record, common opponents and boxing historians and aficionados of the time say he would have. In 1905 Mavin Hart vs. Jack Johnson was set up as an eliminator fight with the winner meeting Jeffries. What happened?


Jeffries said to the press Johnson was a possible opponents for him after Monroe! But Hart beat Johnson and there wasn't a big demand fir Jeffries vs Hart as fans viewed him as another Monroe. And Mcvey was retired form boxing in 1905. Got it now?

From 1902 -1903 ( when someone offered 15k ) Jeffries had big money fights with Fitzsimmons and Corbett for around 30K. These were former lineal champions and would yield far more than a 17-18 year old Sam Mcvey, as he wasn't early as popular as Corbett and Fitzsimmons were. Be reasonable, it was a cheap offer from and unknown fighter at the time who was but 5-0 at box rec at the end of 1902! In 1903-1904 Sam McVery lost three fights in a row and retried from to game until 1906. At that time Jeffries was retired. That is how it went down.

Now do you think Jeffries should have fought a 5-0 fighter who was 17-18 years old for far less that he made vs Corbett and Fitzsimmons now? I'd appreciate an answer and will you apply the same logic to Jack Johnson who had multiple offers for more ( which was the only time Sam Mcvey ) than he fought vs. known and ranked fighters form 1909-1914?

Also what full rounds have you seen in the 1910 fight? List them please. I don't think you have seen what I have and are running your mouth based on a few highlights which show the fight was slow and featured a lot of clinching. Ie. It was close. Jeffries was sightly the better IMO in the fight four rounds. Indeed the British press had him slightly in the lead. Jeffries definitely won round four and nine. As I said if was a close enough of a fight through round 9 and Jeffries was old and had not fought in 6 years!

Rounds 10-15 were all Johnson's as the old man was tired. At least he went out on he shield and didn't quit a confirmed two or 3 times as Johnson did. Just the facts and timelines.

[travestyny]

B()ll$#it! Johnson ignored many offers and only signed the contact when he knew the fight could not be made in a certain area. He DID not which the venue if the fight! Why?

Yes the was a year between Corbett and Fitzsimmons. One year is not much time for a champion to duck anyone an I explained then that teenage 17-18 old McVey was a nobody. Had a Remo 1910 like purse for Jeffries been there in for Jeffries in 1905 we see him fight and beat the over rated Johnson just like the ring record, common opponents and boxing historians and aficionados of the time say he would have. In 1905 Mavin Hart vs. Jack Johnson was set up as an eliminator fight with the winner meeting Jeffries. What happened?


Jeffries said to the press Johnson was a possible opponents for him after Monroe! But Hart beat Johnson and there wasn't a big demand fir Jeffries vs Hart as fans viewed him as another Monroe. And Mcvey was retired form boxing in 1905. Got it now?

Again, how would Johnson know they wouldn't allow the fight in New York? I've already proven that matchmakers, promoters, and Jeannette's team were not aware of this, so how was Johnson the only one to know? Please explain.

You keep talking about McVey being a teenager. How about Jack Johnson? The fighting crowd at the Corbett fight dismissed Munroe's challenge for Jeffries but cheered Johnson's challenge. Why didn't he fight him instead of Munroe? You keep going all around this but not addressing it.

[Willie Pep 229]

B()ll$#it! Johnson ignored many offers and only signed the contact when he knew the fight could not be made in a certain area. He DID not which the venue if the fight! Why?

Yes the was a year between Corbett and Fitzsimmons. One year is not much time for a champion to duck anyone an I explained then that teenage 17-18 old McVey was a nobody. Had a Remo 1910 like purse for Jeffries been there in for Jeffries in 1905 we see him fight and beat the over rated Johnson just like the ring record, common opponents and boxing historians and aficionados of the time say he would have. In 1905 Mavin Hart vs. Jack Johnson was set up as an eliminator fight with the winner meeting Jeffries. What happened?


Jeffries said to the press Johnson was a possible opponents for him after Monroe! But Hart beat Johnson and there wasn't a big demand fir Jeffries vs Hart as fans viewed him as another Monroe. And Mcvey was retired form boxing in 1905. Got it now?

Why would he bother to do that?

The man was as defiant and boorish as they come. You think he would/could act in such a Machiavellian manner?

Too subtle an act for such an uneducated man acting as his own manager. Too many variables to control.

Also such an act demands he hold a need of 'wanting to be fan accepted.' Otherwise why bother with the scam. But we know he made his dime off playing the villain; people paid to see him lose.

He never gave a tinker's damn what people thought, why would he start caring with the Jeannette fight? It's not like he cared if the colored community embraced him. He didn't, in fact he often would deliberately antagonize them, e.g. calling ALL black women whores and thieves.

The man had a bad habit of being obvious about his ****** decisions.

I know, I know, he susposedly invented a wrench in prison. I don't believe that either. I believe the wrench exists and that there is a patten with a name on it, but I don't believe he designed it. If the name is his, he probably made a deal to use his name.

The man was half showman, half conman, half fighter, but in the end it seems not too bright.

Maybe Trump ******. His ego often got in his way and he ended up broke and serving (unjust) time anyway, just like so many other fighters.

You got this guy pulling off a slick move; a guy who in the real world ran face first into every wall put in front of him.

[Dr. Z]

Again, how would Johnson know they wouldn't allow the fight in New York? I've already proven that matchmakers, promoters, and Jeannette's team were not aware of this, so how was Johnson the only one to know? Please explain.

You keep talking about McVey being a teenager. How about Jack Johnson? The fighting crowd at the Corbett fight dismissed Munroe's challenge for Jeffries but cheered Johnson's challenge. Why didn't he fight him instead of Munroe? You keep going all around this but not addressing it.

Munroe was fought Jeffries because he lied to the press on a 4 round exhibition match where Jeffries knocked him down twice, but Munroe lasted the distance. He claimed he's scored a knockdown. That was bogus. He used the lie to the press to get him a real fight with Jeffries and was blown away in two rounds.

Now why didn't Johnson move the fight to Texas, LA, San Fran, Las Vegas, Boston, Philly, or other areas in the USA where could fight Jeannette and did in the past! Answer me. The money was there and he would have made more than he did vs O'Brien, Ross, Kaufman, Jim Johnson or Moran!

You didn't prove jack I own you on this topic. Try answering my questions for a change as I did yours. IMO, IF Johnson beat Hart ( he did not ) AND a 1910 Reno like Purse was there for Jeffries we would have seen the fight in 1905!

What was the highest purse offer for Jeffries to meet Johnson pre 1906? Why do you continue to duck my questions? Less than Corbett and Fitzsimmons that is for sure. Jeffries had he fight with Johnson happened in 1899 - 1905 would have beaten Johnson.

[travestyny]

Munroe was fought Jeffries because he lied to the press on a 4 round exhibition match where Jeffries knocked him down twice, but Munroe lasted the distance. He claimed he's scored a knockdown. That was bogus. He used the lie to the press to get him a real fight with Jeffries and was blown away in two rounds.

Apparently, the crowd at the fight didn't care about this at all. Again, they jeered when his challenge was made, but cheered when Johnson's was made. So once again, why didn't he give the fight fans what they wanted and fight Johnson instead of Munroe?

Now why didn't Johnson move the fight to Texas, LA, San Fran, Las Vegas, Boston, Philly, or other areas in the USA where could fight Jeannette and did in the past! Answer me. The money was there and he would have made more than he did vs O'Brien, Ross, Kaufman, Jim Johnson or Moran!

Was the money there? Show us the offers. We have only asked you a billion times.

You didn't prove jack I own you on this topic.

How can you own anyone when all you do is avoid questions, duck, dodge, and never prove anything. We are all still waiting for all of these offers you claim.

Try answering my questions for a change as I did yours. IMO, IF Johnson beat Hart ( he did not ) AND a 1910 Reno like Purse was there for Jeffries we would have seen the fight in 1905!

BS. He didn't want any part of Johnson. He drew the color line because he didn't want to get the spanking he got later.

What was the highest purse offer for Jeffries to meet Johnson pre 1906? Why do you continue to duck my questions? Less than Corbett and Fitzsimmons that is for sure. Jeffries had he fight with Johnson happened in 1899 - 1905 would have beaten Johnson.

I don't know what the highest purse offer was because Jeffries wouldn't even go to the negotiation table. Why did he duck Johnson and instead fight Munroe when NO ONE wanted it. You can't answer, can you?