Joe Jennette vs. Jack Johnson 1913

[Willie Pep 229]

He is saying both men put up forfeiture money,that the fight did not happen was the fault of neither,and so neither had to pay the other.

Surely that isnt so difficult to grasp?
This is verified in Pollack's 2nd volume Jack Johnson ,The Reign,whether you choose to believe it is entirely up to you.

Maybe you need it explained to you.

What he did was try to counter Ghost's argument that Johnson knew the fight would never happen (so says Ghost) that's why JJ signed.

I didn't personaly buy into that argument.

T then tried to argue why would Jeannette put forfeit money at risk if they knew the fight could never happen.

That is of course meaningless because no forfeit money is lost if they can't find a venue.

So his argument (at least in that post) did not properly counter Ghost's point.

Now go back and read the remark I replied to and see if you can understand my challenge.

[travestyny]

Maybe you need it explained to you.

What he did was try to counter Ghost's argument that Johnson knew the fight would never happen (so says Ghost) that's why JJ signed.

I didn't personaly buy into that argument.

T then tried to argue why would Jeannette put forfeit money at risk if they knew the fight could never happen.

That is of course meaningless because no forfeit money is lost if they can't find a venue.

So his argument (at least in that post) did not properly counter Ghost's point.

Now go back and read the remark I replied to and see if you can understand my challenge.

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say.

1. Why would anyone purposely tie up their money in something that wasn't going to happen?
2. The McMahon brothers also paid forfeitures. Johnson believed he was at least entitled to that money because it was to guarantee the fight would come off.
3. Why would the MSG matchmaker have been trying to make the Jeannette fight if it was known that the fight couldn't happen in NY.


Do you see how all of that makes the contention that Johnson knew the fight couldn't be made ridiculous? Were Jeannette, his manager, the promoters, and the biggest matchmakers in NY boxing all unaware of this? Only Johnson knew and played them all? Why would the commission take a few days to figure it out if it was already a done deal? It's complete bullshlt.

[Dr. Z]

When can we see these numerous offers in these locations that Johnson refused once his price was met?
I must have asked you about thirty times to produce them by now?Still without any response from you

What about France? Johnson needed money. Still no fight! What about Australia before they banned him? Johnson did not sign that contact either! And what about in the USA states that didn't ban it, like Nevada? You guesses it.? Johnson waited for and out in Chicago and New York. The fight was not moved where it could be made.

And Johnson backed out of a signed contact to fight Langford! That one would have paid him more than he made vs Ross and O'Brien.

YEP.

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say.

1. Why would anyone purposely tie up their money in something that wasn't going to happen?
2. The McMahon brothers also paid forfeitures. Johnson believed he was at least entitled to that money because it was to guarantee the fight would come off.
3. Why would the MSG matchmaker have been trying to make the Jeannette fight if it was known that the fight couldn't happen in NY.


Do you see how all of that makes the contention that Johnson knew the fight couldn't be made ridiculous? Were Jeannette, his manager, the promoters, and the biggest matchmakers in NY boxing all unaware of this? Only Johnson knew and played them all? Why would the commission take a few days to figure it out if it was already a done deal? It's complete bullshlt.

No I didn't but I got it figured out with your second text.

Yea, that is a good argument, " why would anyone tie up their money if they thought there was no chance. I agree.

Your first post I think you wrote it hastily and it sounded like you were suggesting they lost the forfeit money.

I think at some level I misread and you miswrote.

Just a miscommunication between us. But he (that guy) always feels a need to throw in an unecessary remark about others intelligence. And lately I have decided to be annoyed with that behavior.

[travestyny]

No I didn't but I got it figured out with your second text.

Yea, that is a good argument, " why would anyone tie up their money if they thought there was no chance. I agree.

Your first post I think you wrote it hastily and it sounded like you were suggesting they lost the forfeit money.

I think at some level I misread and you miswrote.

Just a miscommunication between us. But he (that guy) always feels a need to throw in an unecessary remark about others intelligent. And lately I have decided to be annoyed with that behavior.

Fair enough. I could have been clearer.

[Ivich]

What about France? Johnson needed money. Still no fight! What about Australia before they banned him? Johnson did not sign that contact either! And what about in the USA states that didn't ban it, like Nevada? You guesses it.? Johnson waited for and out in Chicago and New York. The fight was not moved where it could be made.

And Johnson backed out of a signed contact to fight Langford! That one would have paid him more than he made vs Ross and O'Brien.

YEP.

Johnson signed to defend against both McVey and Langford in Australia,the promoter pulled the plug on the fights when public opinion turned against Johnson.
Now produce verified offers of $30,000 for Johnson to fight any of the black trio that he turned down?

Nevada.Chicago? Which promoter stated he was happy tp put on a heavyweight title fight between two black men?
Not Cofforth.Rickard,or Curley.they are on record as saying two blacks will not draw flies.
NY was only viable because Jeannette was a local boy and a favourite. The contract Johnson reneged on with Langford was for £6000 to be shared between the fighters,with both men to pay their own expenses for training and travelling to the UK.
As champion why would Johnson sail to the UK to fight a dangerous opponent like Langford for a pittance, when he could defend against Flynn in the US for $31,500?

[Dr. Z]

Johnson signed to defend against both McVey and Langford in Australia,the promoter pulled the plug on the fights when public opinion turned against Johnson.
Now produce verified offers of $30,000 for Johnson to fight any of the black trio that he turned down?

Nevada.Chicago? Which promoter stated he was happy tp put on a heavyweight title fight between two black men?
Not Cofforth.Rickard,or Curley.they are on record as saying two blacks will not draw flies.
NY was only viable because Jeannette was a local boy and a favourite. The contract Johnson reneged on with Langford was for £6000 to be shared between the fighters,with both men to pay their own expenses for training and travelling to the UK.
As champion why would Johnson sail to the UK to fight a dangerous opponent like Langford for a pittance, when he could defend against Flynn in the US for $31,500?

SHUT UP! Johnson had platy of time to fight Jeanette and the purse offer him more than he made vs. Kafuman, Ross, Jim Johnson, Ross and O'brien and Moran. The same goes for Sam Langford. Why not fight Langford after Burns? The fight for Langford was offered in 1909. Johnson had the Flynn title match in 1912! A full three years difference.

The contact for the fights that Johnson signed ( proof please ) in Australia could have been moved to Europe, Johnson did not jump to sign it. He signed it hen he knew the offer was dead in Australia. Something about trouble with a woman. For a saint like Johnson?! You get the picture. It was the same in many parts of the world.

You contradict yourself yet again with the two black men won't draw files comment, obviously the offers from the promoters did not feel that way.

[travestyny]

SHUT UP! Johnson had platy of time to fight Jeanette and the purse offer him more than he made vs. Kafuman, Ross, Jim Johnson, Ross and O'brien and Moran. The same goes for Sam Langford. Why not fight Langford after Burns? The fight for Langford was offered in 1909. Johnson had the Flynn title match in 1912! A full three years difference.

The contact for the fights that Johnson signed ( proof please ) in Australia could have been moved to Europe, Johnson did not jump to sign it. He signed it hen he knew the offer was dead in Australia. Something about trouble with a woman. For a saint like Johnson?! You get the picture. It was the same in many parts of the world.

You contradict yourself yet again with the two black men won't draw files comment, obviously the offers from the promoters did not feel that way.

Instead of childish insults like "shut up," why don't you answer his questions?

I'm interested in your answer to his last question. Why would Johnson fight Langford for a shared amount of 6000 pounds when he could get 30,000 fighting others?



You also contradicted yourself by admitting that he signed the Australia contract.

[Dr. Z]

Instead of childish insults like "shut up," why don't you answer his questions?

I'm interested in your answer to his last question. Why would Johnson fight Langford for a shared amount of 6000 pounds when he could get 30,000 fighting others?



You also contradicted yourself by admitting that he signed the Australia contract.

For which others? He made about 5K for fighting Burns, right? Why default all the way to 1912 for the one fight where he won via DQ? What about the other fights ? I have asked you this before. Now look up the purse amounts that Johnson actuallly made. Hint - Hint they where NOT as much as Langford or Jeannette offered through promoters!

A shameless ducker that Johnson was.

[travestyny]

For which others? He made about 5K for fighting Burns, right? Why default all the way to 1912 for the one fight where he won via DQ? What about the other fights ? I have asked you this before. Now look up the purse amounts that Johnson actuallly made. Hint - Hint they where NOT as much as Langford or Jeannette offered through promoters!

A shameless ducker that Johnson was.

You must be a shameless ducker too because you still have refused to answer the question. I'll ask again...

Why would Johnson fight Langford for a shared amount of 6000 pounds when he could get 30,000 fighting others?



You asked me about other fights. I told you I don't have the information and that you should do the research yourself and bring it back here for us to discuss. I already gave you the information on Battling Jim. You refused to address it and never admit that you were wrong and I was right about the length of time that was to take place between the Jim Johnson and Frank Moran fight.