I give up - Overrated / Underrated is a term widely in use.

[Silence]

Overrated

Ali as a p4p fighter
Tyson (completely)
Foreman's power
Frazier's being ATG

Underrated

Fury (completely)
Joshua's boxing ability
Wilder as a H2H fighter
Joyce as a H2H fighter

[Willie Pep 229]

Overrated

Ali as a p4p fighter
Tyson (completely)
Foreman's power
Frazier's being ATG

Underrated

Fury (completely)
Joshua's boxing ability
Wilder as a H2H fighter
Joyce as a H2H fighter

Why not just say you hate old people?

[Silence]

Why not just say you hate old people?

Didn't know that saying opinions is hating.

[Willie Pep 229]

Didn't know that saying opinions is hating.

Saying opinions isn't hating that's why you didn't know it.

But you're obvious!

[Silence]

Saying opinions isn't hating that's why you didn't know it.

But you're obvious!

Why are you so triggered? Is it because I didn't take your favourite cavemen into my H2H lists?

I am so sorry.

[Willie Pep 229]

Why are you so triggered? Is it because I didn't take your favourite cavemen into my H2H lists?

I am so sorry.

See? Obvious!

[Willow The Wisp]

When everyone calls a fighter a "10" and he's really just a "9.8" the term loses its meaning.

Over and under rated are horribly overused terms on this board. Along with . . . "weak era."

....and "Elite", "G.O.A.T.", " P4P", "Boxing I.Q."....

[Willow The Wisp]

#1 most overrated fighter in my opinion is James Toney and by who would be “The internet fans”

He seems fairly ranked by actual boxing people, 2nd Ballot Hall Of Fame inductee which I think is fair as I wouldn’t consider him first ballot and he wasn’t voted on the fist ballot. Not usually on ATG lists.

But the internet fans however take it onto a life of its own where Toney is some ATG fighter who never got hit and dominated other great fighters with ease when in reality none of this happened in his career.

You’ll have fantasy fight threads on here where Toney schools, dominates and knocks out the likes of Canelo, Froch, AJ, Deontay Wilder and many others when he did nothing in his career to have any kind of logical basis for those opinions.

100% Agree with you. I think that the vast majority of the people posting here who view Toney as some sort of an All-time great level fighter saw him for the first time under Randy Couture's balls in a wrestling match.
Popular fighter, very well managed both by Jackie Kallen and then by Stan Hoffman and Dan Goossen.
Some great moves. On occasion he fought Great, but not (Not!) A "Great figher" in the genuine sense. I felt that within his era he was surrounded by better or equally good contemporaries such as Meldrick Taylor, Junior Jones, Dennis Andries, In-Chul Baek, Chris Eubank, Graciano Rocchigiani, Joey Gamache, Vinny Pazienza, Tracy Harris Patterson, Luisito Espinosa, Guty Espadas, Wilfredo Vasquez, Gerald McClellan, Henry Maske, Nigel Benn, Bobby Czyz, Steve Collins, Fabrice Tiozzo, Gianfranco Rosi, Ike Quartey, Julio César Vasquez, Frankie Randall, Jorge Castro, Reggie Johnson, Kevin Kelly, Vuyani Bungu, Oscar Larios, Michael Moorer, Sven Ottke, Stipe Drews, Dariusz Michalczewski, even Sun Kil Moon, etc., etc., etc., who are NOT in the IBHOF, and may never be.
Those are all fighters who represent the same level of overall "Greatness" earned by James Toney.
All very good fighters, to be SURE. Hall of Fame worthy? That depends on how many you want in there - Your criteria.

But James Tony more worthy than most of those guys??? NOPE.

OVERRATED

[Willie Pep 229]

100% Agree with you. I think that the vast majority of the people posting here who view Toney as some sort of an All-time great level fighter saw him for the first time under Randy Couture's balls in a wrestling match.
Popular fighter, very well managed both by Jackie Kallen and then by Stan Hoffman and Dan Goossen.
Some great moves. On occasion he fought Great, but not (Not!) A "Great figher" in the genuine sense. I felt that within his era he was surrounded by better or equally good contemporaries such as Meldrick Taylor, Junior Jones, Dennis Andries, In-Chul Baek, Chris Eubank, Graciano Rocchigiani, Joey Gamache, Vinny Pazienza, Tracy Harris Patterson, Luisito Espinosa, Guty Espadas, Wilfredo Vasquez, Gerald McClellan, Henry Maske, Nigel Benn, Bobby Czyz, Steve Collins, Fabrice Tiozzo, Gianfranco Rosi, Ike Quartey, Julio César Vasquez, Frankie Randall, Jorge Castro, Reggie Johnson, Kevin Kelly, Vuyani Bungu, Oscar Larios, Michael Moorer, Sven Ottke, Stipe Drews, Dariusz Michalczewski, even Sun Kil Moon, etc., etc., etc., who are NOT in the IBHOF, and may never be.
Those are all fighters who represent the same level of overall "Greatness" earned by James Toney.
All very good fighters, to be SURE. Hall of Fame worthy? That depends on how many you want in there - Your criteria.

But James Tony more worthy than most of those guys??? NOPE.

OVERRATED

That's a long list . . . I'm replying to just some of them.

For whatever reasons, Toney's fights were bigger than most of the above. Why, I truly can't say.

Maybe it was the promoters/broadcasters. But Toney's fights garnered much attention.

Just the amount of banter we have on this board, as to his level of greatest, says there was something special going on.

If he gets in the HOF it's because Mancini got in; that's the only criteria that gets him in.

But when we think Toney, we think big fights?

[IronDanHamza]

100% Agree with you. I think that the vast majority of the people posting here who view Toney as some sort of an All-time great level fighter saw him for the first time under Randy Couture's balls in a wrestling match.
Popular fighter, very well managed both by Jackie Kallen and then by Stan Hoffman and Dan Goossen.
Some great moves. On occasion he fought Great, but not (Not!) A "Great figher" in the genuine sense. I felt that within his era he was surrounded by better or equally good contemporaries such as Meldrick Taylor, Junior Jones, Dennis Andries, In-Chul Baek, Chris Eubank, Graciano Rocchigiani, Joey Gamache, Vinny Pazienza, Tracy Harris Patterson, Luisito Espinosa, Guty Espadas, Wilfredo Vasquez, Gerald McClellan, Henry Maske, Nigel Benn, Bobby Czyz, Steve Collins, Fabrice Tiozzo, Gianfranco Rosi, Ike Quartey, Julio CĂ©sar Vasquez, Frankie Randall, Jorge Castro, Reggie Johnson, Kevin Kelly, Vuyani Bungu, Oscar Larios, Michael Moorer, Sven Ottke, Stipe Drews, Dariusz Michalczewski, even Sun Kil Moon, etc., etc., etc., who are NOT in the IBHOF, and may never be.
Those are all fighters who represent the same level of overall "Greatness" earned by James Toney.
All very good fighters, to be SURE. Hall of Fame worthy? That depends on how many you want in there - Your criteria.

But James Tony more worthy than most of those guys??? NOPE.

OVERRATED

Or they watched his highlight video against Iran Barkley and some unranked bums and assume that’s what his fights look like.

The fight with Iran Barkley in general is so incredibly overrated. #1 Barkley was well beyond his best years and #2 Barkley in his prime was a dead average fighter at best. Far from elite. But you’ll have people on here using that fight as a measuring stick as to why he dominates or destroys great fighters.

Like I’ve said before, that never happened a single time in his career. In fact, there’s not a single example of Toney “dominating” a top level fighter, let alone a great one.

There’s even some people on here over the years who actually genuinely believe that Toney has the capability of beating Roy Jones. It’s beyond baffling.