I give up - Overrated / Underrated is a term widely in use.

[QueensburyRules]

- - It's true that 99.6% of the time some miscreant claims a fighter is over or underrated, they won't give a rating.

But of course the usual suspects gonna jump in and make a giant hash of the topic.

[Slugfester]

Discussing it is discussing it. My own assessments change often. I am not stuck on many fighters, but stuck on Duran for sure. Therefore I may easily overestimate him. Great as we all know he was, he can still be overestimated, I am sure, because people are wild about his fighting style.

Joshua is a different matter for me. Why he is so highly estimated by some at this late date is baffling. I can only assume it is for personal reasons and not so much about boxing. Maybe patriotism and thanks for his Olympic service. I don't know. Maybe gays like his body. What do you think? I was reading old letters and see you have been around here a long time and may be one of the old wise ones. What is your opinion on these Joshua pollyannas? Do they deserve a listen or are they just kids and gamers over from the fantasy fights section?

[QueensburyRules]

Discussing it is discussing it. My own assessments change often. I am not stuck on many fighters, but stuck on Duran for sure. Therefore I may easily overestimate him. Great as we all know he was, he can still be overestimated, I am sure, because people are wild about his fighting style.

Joshua is a different matter for me. Why he is so highly estimated by some at this late date is baffling. I can only assume it is for personal reasons and not so much about boxing. Maybe patriotism and thanks for his Olympic service. I don't know. Maybe gays like his body. What do you think? I was reading old letters and see you have been around here a long time and may be one of the old wise ones. What is your opinion on these Joshua pollyannas? Do they deserve a listen or are they just kids and gamers over from the fantasy fights section?

- - How is AJ a pollyanna when he took on the best who would fight him, all of whom got record paydays?

Pray tell us what heavy has a better record after 27 fights?

[JAB5239]

Discussing it is discussing it. My own assessments change often. I am not stuck on many fighters, but stuck on Duran for sure. Therefore I may easily overestimate him. Great as we all know he was, he can still be overestimated, I am sure, because people are wild about his fighting style.

Joshua is a different matter for me. Why he is so highly estimated by some at this late date is baffling. I can only assume it is for personal reasons and not so much about boxing. Maybe patriotism and thanks for his Olympic service. I don't know. Maybe gays like his body. What do you think? I was reading old letters and see you have been around here a long time and may be one of the old wise ones. What is your opinion on these Joshua pollyannas? Do they deserve a listen or are they just kids and gamers over from the fantasy fights section?

Queenie loves AJ's body. That's why he goes by Queenie!!

[Slugfester]

- - How is AJ a pollyanna when he took on the best who would fight him, all of whom got record paydays?

Pray tell us what heavy has a better record after 27 fights?

I put an S on the end. His fans are Pollyanas, though he must be one, too. Fights at the beginning of a career are poor evidence. Besides, how does his record look now? I think they are joking with me if they are saying you are a big fan. You tell many jokes all the time. You fooled them, but not me. Now please tell me what the Joshua pollyannas see in him, if you actually know. Thanks, friend.

[QueensburyRules]

I put an S on the end. His fans are Pollyanas, though he must be one, too. Fights at the beginning of a career are poor evidence. Besides, how does his record look now? I think they are joking with me if they are saying you are a big fan. You tell many jokes all the time. You fooled them, but not me. Now please tell me what the Joshua pollyannas see in him, if you actually know. Thanks, friend.

- - Remade boxing into a spectacle sport of additional magnificent riches on the scale of what Mike Tyson with his HOF team did in his day.

AJ didn't have a HOF team, but rather a novice trainer and young Eddie Hearn who helped immensely by lining up Haymon's stable to be wiped clean.

Spent time and support $ in Rio Janeiro for the British Olympic team.

I cannot speak for the uncountable thousands of fans packing the stadium to see his fights.

Already done more than most IBHOFers.

[Slugfester]

- - Remade boxing into a spectacle sport of additional magnificent riches on the scale of what Mike Tyson with his HOF team did in his day.

AJ didn't have a HOF team, but rather a novice trainer and young Eddie Hearn who helped immensely by lining up Haymon's stable to be wiped clean.

Spent time and support $ in Rio Janeiro for the British Olympic team.

I cannot speak for the uncountable thousands of fans packing the stadium to see his fights.

Already done more than most IBHOFers.

I know you are joking now. But it was a good try. If it was not humor, I think you are certainly lost to reason, but I am not worried about that after this letter. Only a reasonable man can write a good joke. Thanks, pal.

[Slugfester]

The rest of you can see that Queensbury is not actually backing Joshua as a great or excellent fighter, but as a drawing attraction, etc. I told you people he was playing you. I guarantee you a man this smart does not actually think Joshua is a great fighter or anything close. The man is a jester, and a jester cannot stop when he has an audience taking his bait like wolves. Mainly, I sit back and enjoy the show. I read the old letters from long ago.

[QueensburyRules]

The rest of you can see that Queensbury is not actually backing Joshua as a great or excellent fighter, but as a drawing attraction, etc. I told you people he was playing you. I guarantee you a man this smart does not actually think Joshua is a great fighter or anything close. The man is a jester, and a jester cannot stop when he has an audience taking his bait like wolves. Mainly, I sit back and enjoy the show. I read the old letters from long ago.

- - Ran a contender comparison when AJ was age 27 and 18-0, 18 KO, 3-0 in Title fights going into his unification bout with former unified Great champ Wlad getting a chance to fight for all his former belts stripped off Blubber Fury during his first meltdown.

Jack Dempsey 12-1-5, 11 KO 1916, age 19, no contender 5 years before title

Joe Louis 18-0, 14 KO 1935, age 21, no contender 2 years before title

Rocky Marciano 18-0, 17 KO 1949, age 25, no contender 3 year before title

Muhammad Ali 18-0, 14 KO 1963, age 22, one contender Doug Jones 1 year before title

Joe Frazier 18-0, 16 KO 1967, age 23, no contender 1 year before title

George Foreman 18-0, 15 KO 1970, age 21, no contender 3 years before title

Larry Holmes 18-0, 13 KO 1975, age 26, no contender 3 years before title

Mike Tyson 18-0, 18 KO 1986, age 19, no contender 9 months before title

Lennox Lewis 18-0, 16 KO 1991, age 26, no contender 2 years before title

Wladimir Klitschko 18-0, 17 KO 1998, age 21, no contender 2 years before title

AJ prevailed in a fantastically great back and forth fight by both.

I can guarantee you that you don't know what I think unless you have a reference to a past comment. AJ already HOF bound and Valhalla bound. Copy and paste if you need a reminder so you don't come up short again...

[Slugfester]

I come up short?

I am new on here so I really do not know the people. I read back-letters but I guess I did not realize you were a big fan of AJ. I am still not sure you are. I would have asked someone else if they knew, but here we are anyway.

The criterion you laid out is pretty narrow but a valid consideration. I do not dispute your list. Where you, sir, come up short is in not recognizing that the word contender ain't what it used to be. If the guys you mentioned (at least half) lived in our day they would have fought more contenders on the way up, too. But there were only 10 top 10 contenders then. I didn't count recently, but I did a few years ago, and there were about 33 different top 10 contenders! Like the earth's crust, the heavyweight division is fractured into pieces, but so are the other divisions. I don't even remember which division I counted, but I think that point is moot, my count captured the flavor.

Personally, I hope you are right. I have no reason to dislike AJ except his defeats. I discount rather than dislike him. He seems like a true gentleman to me, which sadly is not enough.

It is a minor miracle when a fighter comes back from a host of KO losses as WK did to become, in the opinion of many, a great fighter. Apparently you expect the same type miracle from AJ, and I don't. That is the difference in a nutshell, or part of it. The other part is you think he is really good, and I don't. Like I said, I hope you are right. I will give him that he at least lost twice to a super-talent, which I consider Usyk to be at this point. The other loss was to a guy so fat that he surprises his opponents. Fat as a bull in fly time, he can fight quite well and hard, for at least a few rounds.

You say you can guarantee I don't know what you think. I never said I did. That is why I ask questions. And it seems to me the point of a forum is to tell the others what you think. So I would already have to know something about how you think, or else you're a total and pure bull****ter who only says what you do not think. Right? And I do not believe that. I think your satire sometimes obscures your actual viewpoint. Don't come up short again, kid.