Vitali Klitschko, the last great heavyweight

[JAB5239]

"Give me that ******** book. . . . I'm sick of ******** hearing it. . . . I'll give it back when we leave.

For the past 15 minutes now you've been droning on about names. Toby, Toby, Toby Wong, Toby Wong, Toby Won, Toby Chung, ******** Charlie Chan!

I got Mondona's big big **** coming out of my left ear and Toby the Jap, I don't know what, coming out of my right."

The bets off, please!

[JAB5239]

Figured out the picture issue. Dr. Z is on ignore but here's the printed rankings with dates for everyone else subjected to this nonsense.

Thank you for clearing this up once and for all.

[Dr. Z]

jab

You brought up Lamar Clark on page 39. Wow, talk about moving goal posts, he did beat anyone remotely good. You can either accept the fact that Vitali's resume belongs among the best 10-15 heavyweights in history from 1924 to current or ignore the ring rankings all together. ( you still think he only won six matches vs ring rated opponents ) Clark never beat anyone remotely good.

Okay pal, let's look the records of opponents beaten shall we? And Vitali's winning percentage vs heavyweights is excellent. Keep moving goal posts and ignoring the facts!

[JAB5239]

jab

You brought up Lamar Clark on page 39. Wow, talk about moving goal posts, he did beat anyone remotely good. You can either accept the fact that Vitali's resume belongs among the best 10-15 heavyweights in history from 1924 to current or ignore the ring rankings all together. ( you still think he only won six matches vs ring rated opponents ) Clark never beat anyone remotely good.

Okay pal, let's look the records of opponents beaten shall we? And Vitali's winning percentage vs heavyweights is excellent. Keep moving goal posts and ignoring the facts!

You go ahead and do that. Lol, you've been absolutely turned out in this thread. I can't help that you can't accept his resume isn't what you want it to be. You should take comfort in knowing most knowledgeable fans agree he would be a force in any era. That doesn't make him an all time great though.......at least not the top 10, and just outside the top 20 for me personally. So if you want to keep going, be my guest!!

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORAL IMPROVES!!!!!!!

By the way, you owe Cliff an apology. No Solis ranking as you insisted.

[Dr. Z]

You go ahead and do that. Lol, you've been absolutely turned out in this thread. I can't help that you can't accept his resume isn't what you want it to be. You should take comfort in knowing most knowledgeable fans agree he would be a force in any era. That doesn't make him an all time great though.......at least not the top 10, and just outside the top 20 for me personally. So if you want to keep going, be my guest!!

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORAL IMPROVES!!!!!!!

By the way, you owe Cliff an apology. No Solis ranking as you insisted.

Um, Cliff admitted that Soils was ranked ( web raking of ring magazine he says ) and I proved an additional link for Box rec. So that is his admission and a separate source. If he wants to opt out if the discussion he can do that. I see he has put me on ignore, so it's only fair to keep his name out.

You can come up with 20 better names. I can uses a good laugh!

Either head to head names, or via accomplishments. I predict you will move goal posts again or flat out ignore this request of coming up with 20+ better names.

In the mean time he is a hall of fame first time enshrine and lead vote receiver his class. Frankly you opinion does not rate next to that.

[JAB5239]

Um, Cliff admitted that Soils was ranked ( web raking of ring magazine he says ) and I proved an additional link for Box rec. So that is his admission and a separate source. If he wants to opt out if the discussion he can do that. I see he has put me on ignore, so it's only fair to keep his name out.

You can come up with 20 better names. I can uses a good laugh!

Either head to head names, or via accomplishments. I predict you will move goal posts again or flat out ignore this request of coming up with 20+ better names.

In the mean time he is a hall of fame first time enshrine and lead vote receiver his class. Frankly you opinion does not rate next to that.

My list is my opinion, just like yours is yours. But the way I do a list is based on not only accomplishments, but who you beat, and how good the era was. H2h plays a role as well, but a very small one since fantasy fights cannot be proven. More than anything it's based on competition, which Vits is far behind many fighter as well as never having beaten the best fighter in his division.

The hall of fame is just that.....it's about fame. That said Vits belongs there. I never said he wasn't great or even great for his era. I said he is not top 10 or 15 all time amongst heavyweights. I can back that up till the cows come home.

Look, Solis wasn't ranked. Oxrec isn't the Ring. Let that one go. You've already looked horrible in this debate. Just say your sorry and move on.

[Bundana]

My list is my opinion, just like yours is yours. But the way I do a list is based on not only accomplishments, but who you beat, and how good the era was. H2h plays a role as well, but a very small one since fantasy fights cannot be proven. More than anything it's based on competition, which Vits is far behind many fighter as well as never having beaten the best fighter in his division.

The hall of fame is just that.....it's about fame. That said Vits belongs there. I never said he wasn't great or even great for his era. I said he is not top 10 or 15 all time amongst heavyweights. I can back that up till the cows come home.

Look, Solis wasn't ranked. Oxrec isn't the Ring. Let that one go. You've already looked horrible in this debate. Just say your sorry and move on.

I'm confused (once again!)... because didn't we see, in this very thread (#254), that Solis was actually Ring ranked as late as March 6, 2011? Just 13 days before the Vitali fight?

[crold1]

I'm confused (once again!)... because didn't we see, in this very thread (#254), that Solis was actually Ring ranked as late as March 6, 2011? Just 13 days before the Vitali fight?

The debate was about whether the ranking ever appeared in the print mag prior to the fight as related to a study of print issues I did. It was insisted Solis had been there prior and was missed but it wasn’t true. I noted months ago there could have been an online adjustment between issues and there was one located but he was in and out before it went back to press. I typed this all out previously and figured out how to add the pics. For context.

[Bundana]

The debate was about whether the ranking ever appeared in the print mag prior to the fight as related to a study of print issues I did. It was insisted Solis had been there prior and was missed but it wasn’t true. I noted months ago there could have been an online adjustment between issues and there was one located but he was in and out before it went back to press. I typed this all out previously and figured out how to add the pics. For context.

The overall debate is clearly about whether or not Solis should count as a reigning Top-10 HW, defeated by Vitali. So should he, or shouldn't he?

[BattlingNelson]

Figured out the picture issue. Dr. Z is on ignore but here's the printed rankings with dates for everyone else subjected to this nonsense.

You got it Cliff.