Vitali Klitschko, the last great heavyweight

[BattlingNelson]

The overall debate is clearly about whether or not Solis should count as a reigning Top-10 HW, defeated by Vitali. So should he, or shouldn't he?

Yes. I'd also like to know.

[QueensburyRules]

The debate was about whether the ranking ever appeared in the print mag prior to the fight as related to a study of print issues I did. It was insisted Solis had been there prior and was missed but it wasn’t true. I noted months ago there could have been an online adjustment between issues and there was one located but he was in and out before it went back to press. I typed this all out previously and figured out how to add the pics. For context.

- - I will say that undefeated Solis had a huge public backing of the usual Cognoscenti and fans, who when they get it wrong usually do so in spectacular fashion as that fight played out.

[Marchegiano]

I'm confused (once again!)... because didn't we see, in this very thread (#254), that Solis was actually Ring ranked as late as March 6, 2011? Just 13 days before the Vitali fight?

The post itself:

Just check one of the archive websites guys. The closest online archive of The Ring rankings prior to the fight is March 8th, a week ahead of the fight.

Solis was ranked as the #10 contender, with Wlad as champ. Someone mentioned that the April version didn't include Solis, which would presumably be due to him losing in one round in March. He later reentered the rankings and got as high as #7, prior to Thompson beating him the first time.

So he was Ring ranked, that is true, although plenty of guys come and go in those rankings who are of little significance if we're talking from a historical perspective. Alexander Dimitrenko was ranked even higher than him in March 2011 but in the bigger picture who really gives a crap if someone beat Alex Dimitrenko. For me it's similar with Solis and all the other ranked guys Vitali beat, and it's why I struggle to rate him high in a historical sense even though he was a very good fighter.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110308...49-heavyweight

And the link in full:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110308180233/http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/49-heavyweight

Just in case embed is messing with some of you, it did me.




My 2:


I think he ought to be counted. As best I can tell there was no print objective to the original bet. That bumps Vitali to 8?

I also think it shows just how bad ring ratings can get. Seems like Solis was placed there to bring some legitimacy to a fight that was bogus.

[Marchegiano]

jab

You brought up Lamar Clark on page 39. Wow, talk about moving goal posts, he did beat anyone remotely good. You can either accept the fact that Vitali's resume belongs among the best 10-15 heavyweights in history from 1924 to current or ignore the ring rankings all together. ( you still think he only won six matches vs ring rated opponents ) Clark never beat anyone remotely good.

Okay pal, let's look the records of opponents beaten shall we? And Vitali's winning percentage vs heavyweights is excellent. Keep moving goal posts and ignoring the facts!

In my opinion, if you're going to make a mountain out of a rating that only existed online you can't cite from 24 anymore. It's become from whenever Ring.tv started posting online ratings to now, now. Or you can drop Solis. Can't have it both ways, it's unfair to the champs who existed during the print-only era ... obviously.

Also, I would like to know why this matters so much. Vitali had an arsenal, was huge, and a tough guy. Plenty to make a case with outside of Ring rating.

[BattlingNelson]

The post itself:




And the link in full:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110308180233/http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/49-heavyweight

Just in case embed is messing with some of you, it did me.




My 2:


I think he ought to be counted. As best I can tell there was no print objective to the original bet. That bumps Vitali to 8?

I also think it shows just how bad ring ratings can get. Seems like Solis was placed there to bring some legitimacy to a fight that was bogus.

So this settles it. Solis was ranked.

[Marchegiano]

So this settles it. Solis was ranked.

He was definitely ranked but given Dr.Z is pressing for a from 24 I think it's debatable still. From 24 requires a print issue.

Also, I doubt anyone looking to break Vitali's resume with other names actually took the time to look through archived ring online ratings. Pretty sure they're going by Ring annual on boxrec.

So, a finer comb and a smaller range is required, imo, to give Solis the nod.


That said, did they post more than 10 names who still best Vitali in ring rated opponents? Even without archived weeklies?

[BattlingNelson]

He was definitely ranked but given Dr.Z is pressing for a from 24 I think it's debatable still. From 24 requires a print issue.

Also, I doubt anyone looking to break Vitali's resume with other names actually took the time to look through archived ring online ratings. Pretty sure they're going by Ring annual on boxrec.

So, a finer comb and a smaller range is required, imo, to give Solis the nod.


That said, did they post more than 10 names who still best Vitali in ring rated opponents? Even without archived weeklies?

Idk. I haven’t made a count. Maybe jab knows?

[JAB5239]

He was definitely ranked but given Dr.Z is pressing for a from 24 I think it's debatable still. From 24 requires a print issue.

Also, I doubt anyone looking to break Vitali's resume with other names actually took the time to look through archived ring online ratings. Pretty sure they're going by Ring annual on boxrec.

So, a finer comb and a smaller range is required, imo, to give Solis the nod.


That said, did they post more than 10 names who still best Vitali in ring rated opponents? Even without archived weeklies?

Yes, there are 10+ that have more Ring ranked wins than Vitaly.

[crold1]

Yes, there are 10+ that have more Ring ranked wins than Vitaly.

Relative to their era:

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Holyfield
Patterson
Frazier
Lewis
Charles
Tyson
Wlad

All had 10 or more wins against Ring-ranked heavyweights as just a sample. It’s not as deep a pool as some might suspect. 10 is pretty damn rare air at heavyweight

[JAB5239]

Relative to their era:

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Holyfield
Patterson
Frazier
Lewis
Charles
Tyson
Wlad

All had 10 or more wins against Ring-ranked heavyweights as just a sample. It’s not as deep a pool as some might suspect. 10 is pretty damn rare air at heavyweight

There are others as well. And as tough as I think Vits was, I just can't rank him highly amongst all time greats.